Jab's Builds! (Big Hero Six! Hiro! Baymax! Honey Lemon! GoGo!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
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HalloweenJack
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sersi! Starfox! The Deviants! Kronos! The Celestials!)

Post by HalloweenJack » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:52 pm

Just remembered something about the whole "why doesn't Jesus appear in comics?" thing (though damned if I'm going to go back and find the actual conversation).


It's really one of those tough things when you incorporate living religions (for the most part. I know some pagans do still worship Thor and the like) into a comic: you're going to piss off everyone. EVERYONE.

We've already established the Hindu gods and what not, and how that can bite someone in the ass. For example, we've talked about Thor vs Shiva/Indra already, but there was also some fire directed towards Xena: Warrior Princess when they had Hindu gods on there. Supernatural got some of the same when Lucifer wiped out a ton of gods, including Ganesha and Kali (though she at least survived). And there was even that Aussie lamb commercial recently that I found to be rather cute that had several gods and the like all sitting around a table having a meal, which I felt was pretty inoffensive (I consider myself a Christian despite my various flaws (just ask Ares....at HC we once decided which video game characters we were....I got Conker the Squirrel (how many of these within this can I make?) and I think the Jesus/Zeus Jesus/Thor exchanges are funny) but from what I gathered alot of Hindu believers felt slighted by it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9UnNq9srog said commercial



And many many moons ago...there was Zauriel. I was like....15 when Zauriel first showed up and the character didn't offend me in the least. I even told a friend of mine who's a pastor about the scene where Zauriel is trying to haul Aquaman put of the sea when Orion shot the Star Conqueror in the eye and mentioned the whole "Christ give me strength" thing he had said. My buddy actually considered that quite complimentary in his eyes.

But not everyone was of the same mood.

I remember Wizard printing a letter when someone condemned Grant Morrison putting an angel on the team for seeming blasphemous. That really blew my mind. Morrison had a good comeback though with "Well, if I've done wrong then they can always forgive me" or something to that extent.

Also, around 99 -2000 or so there was an old MSN chatroom I visited called SF Nexus: a nice little science fiction chatroom. I met some good friends there and still keep in touch with a few of them and it was generally a pretty good little place.

Though I do remember a guy with the handle of Mongo there. Pretty cool guy overall, but when I mentioned Zauriel there he went ballistic. Not because he found it blasphemous or what not. See Mongo was an atheist. He was offended that someone had included an angel in a comic book and felt that it was an effort to indoctrinate readers towards Christianity. I was flabbergasted by that. I certainly never read it as such. To me it was a supernatural character in a universe of various supernatural and superhuman characters or events. I didn't get why it set him off so. I mean I do....everybody is going to have some view on religion, but even explaining Grant Morrison's own religious views (they ain't Christian) didn't seem to penetrate his anger.

It's gonna piss people off most times.


Kind of a long ramble, but I thought it was worth writing for this.

Now let's have some lamb.

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HalloweenJack
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sersi! Starfox! The Deviants! Kronos! The Celestials!)

Post by HalloweenJack » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:55 pm

oh also Jewish ADL apparently.

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Ares
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sersi! Starfox! The Deviants! Kronos! The Celestials!)

Post by Ares » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:22 pm

If there's anything today's social media society has taught me, no matter what you do, you're going to piss off someone. In an age of "trigger warnings", "safe spaces", and other such nonsense, someone out there is going to get upset at you. In which case, you sbould just do what you want, have a solid justification for it if called on it, and try not to be intentionally offensive. You do all of that and people still get upset, well, you did your best and its likely they were going to find something to upset them regardless. We live in an age where a few people are trying to be pprofessional victims, and they will find something objectionable if it'll get them attention.

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sersi! Starfox! The Deviants! Kronos! The Celestials!)

Post by Ares » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:29 pm

As for the Celestials. . . I like the designs and the concept to a degree, but to another degree I don't really care for them. Basically, they're just too powerful, numerous and mysterious. Galactus is special because there's one of him and he's about as powerful as you can get before you get to conceptual beings like Eternity. The Celestials are a race of beings, potentially over 100 of them in one storyline, who are near or at Galactus' power. They're too powerful, too numerous and too vague.

I know I'll be in the minority, but they need to be less vague and mysterious, and there either needs to be a whole lot less of them or they need to be individually much less powerful.

Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sersi! Starfox! The Deviants! Kronos! The Celestials!)

Post by Jabroniville » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:03 am

Heh- that commercial was great. L. Ron Hubbard, Mohammed not being able to make an appearance, and Atheism being the fastest-growing religion of all (which I think is true in many places).

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sersi! Starfox! The Deviants! Kronos! The Celestials!)

Post by Jabroniville » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:04 am

Personal Note: You know how when I used to do those "What Should I Build Next?" polls and then specify that I WOULD NOT ALLOW any kind of "Write-In" candidate? And I'd leave a series of bitchy notes telling people not to even joke about it, and suggest that anyone doing so would have their idea stricken from my "To-Do" list forever? And why I left a whole ton of notes over the years about not doing requests?

POWER PACK is why.

See, way way back at the VERY BEGINNING of M&M Third Edition, in July 2010, I was planning on starting things off (after naturally doing the Serpent Society first) with either Spider-Man builds or Animal Builds- both being very good set-ups for what the new system (which I was still learning) was capable of. I was so into both concepts that I statted up the first couple characters from each ahead of time, in anticipation. And I gave out a poll between Spider-Man, the FF, JSA, X-Men, and more, so that people could decide which of the two they wanted.

And what happened? Well, someone (MisterO, who I vaguely remember) namedropped "I want to see Power Pack!" And then EVERYONE started dogpiling in! I mean, EVERYONE- they were like "hey, since we're doing third options, how about the Freedom Fighters/Marauders/NextWave/Wrecking Crew/MLF?" stuff. But many people corroborated Power Pack, to the point where I basically had to forget about everything I WANTED to do, and do this write-in about a team I hated.

As a result, I hated Power Pack EVEN MORE. I mean, I'd already despised them because of their awful part in The Mutant Massacre, but NOW? And this led to my ever-lasting hatred of Write-Ins and Requests. My bad mood over this was enough that, while doing the builds (which I didn't care about in the first place), when poor FuzzyBoots commented twice in a row on my Template Fail on the group, I bit his head off and lectured everyone IN THE THREAD about sending me PMs instead of doing so publicly. So FuzzyBoots can blame Power Pack for my bitchiness (which I've since felt bad about and apologized for) :).

That was seven years and four months ago. My disgust for the team was such that I never bothered to 'port them over to my Ronin Army thread- it wasn't until I was doing the "Marvel Glossary" and HAD to 'port things over that Katie Power got snapped up by the "K"-name builds. However, when we started Echoes of the Multiverse, I realized I didn't want to do team/theme-centric characters in the Glossary-related builds, and so I stopped adding Jack & Julie to the "J" names, or Alex & Aelfyre Whitemane to the "A" names. I decided that if I was going to do Power Pack builds, it'd have to be a separate thing.

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Power Pack

Post by Jabroniville » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:09 am

ImageImage

POWER PACK:
Power Pack was the brainchild of Louise Simonson, then the respected Editor of Chris Claremont's X-Books. With some free time thanks to Marvel's Editor-In-Chief hiring on several new writers, she came up to him with the concept for Power Pack, a book about CHILDREN super-heroes. June Brigman was the artist (because she had a talent for drawing children), and the book debuted in 1984, lasting all the way until 1991 (ironically just when comics was hitting a peak during the Boom period).

The Power siblings were a quartet of kids who gained powers after a horse-like alien named Aelfyre Whitemane appeared on Earth, giving them powers as a reward for helping him out. The kids naturally decided to become super-heroes, hiding this from their parents (who were caricatures of Louise and Walt Simonson- then a married couple). And they even interacted with other Marvel heroes, none of whom appeared overly concerned that five-year-old children were running around in tights, fighting dangerous criminals. Their most frequent enemies were The Snarks (a reptilian alien race) and The Bogeyman. The kids would inexplicably hide their secret identities from their OWN PARENTS, making the Power couple look like complete idiots (how do you not notice four children not being home at the same time?)- one comic undid the secret, but it was written out in a silly way (Dani Moonstar's illusions and a "oh, they were clones" explanation), which fans hated.

Taking part in the Mutant Massacre storyline, they did their damndest to ruin the pathos and horror of the moment. The New Mutants descended into the sewers around the same time, eager to help out the Morlocks... but Claremont wisely wrote them as being shattered by the experience of seeing all those dead bodies. The corpses had left them totally shaken, and agreeing that they should have never gone down there. I mean, they basically had shell-shock over it. Power Pack? Their mission had all the horror of an episode of The Smurfs, with the kids basically going "TRA-LA-LA LA-LA-LA!" and running around, fighting the Marauders and KNOCKING THEM OUT, when the mighty X-Men had suffered terrible losses (Nightcrawler, Colossus and Kitty Pryde were nearly permanently-injured). This, more than anything, made me despise the characters.

Where do you start with Power Pack? They're just so... eighties. A group of young kids introduced in the mid-80s, their book was partially a goofy superhero story, but had as much horror, real-life problems, and Very Special Episodes as any Marvel Comic on the rack, as well as most TV shows. Like I said, it was the '80s- you couldn't throw a stick without hitting a couple shows or books that featured drug addiction, child abduction or abuse. The book was mainly done by Louise Simonson, who I mostly hold as the person who wrecked The New Mutants once Chris Claremont left, but apparently the book had its own fanbase. Not that it helped them- an attempt by Michael Higgins (who I only know because of Bullpen Bulletins pages that I now realize painted him as a stoner) to "adult up" the book in the early '90s failed miserably, resulting in a swift cancellation in the days before the Great Comic Book Crash of the 1990s, and to say that decade would be unfriendly to kiddie-hero books like Power Pack would be a drastic, DRASTIC understatement.

So Power Pack kind of sat as more of a trivia question and a goofy history piece to the Marvel Universe, as very few writers, especially circa the "Iron Age", could take such a theme seriously (despite it's adult themes easily matching-up with the Iron Age). A handful of failed mini-series have started since the first cancellation, but nothing's ever really stuck- the oldest kid Alex even became a New Warrior, but fans apparently hated THAT change as well. Alex gets pushes here and there, and Julie was turned into a moron for The Loners, but nothing really lasts too long. Seems the book has a dedicated and ultra-loyal, but fairly unpleasable, fanbase to it. Unfortunately, the last thing you want to be in the entire world is a media with a very small, ultra-loyal, very noisy fanbase that hates everything new that comes out regarding it. Just look at the poor Doom Patrol.

It's actually kinda funny, though. I have little interaction with this book, but they crossed over with the X-books quite a bit (as well as the Fantastic Four- as Franklin Richards was once a member). They even did an unusual amount of crossing over with WOLVERINE specifically, but in the '80s, it was actually pretty normal for Captain Hard-Ass to have a lot of cute moments with kids, to attempt to humanize him (sorta like his constant teaming up with underage girls, but less creepy).

I must say, though... the idea of children superheroes is INCREDIBLY STUPID. Like, how would any hero on Earth not be horrified to see TINY CHILDREN running around in tights, engaging in fights with actual murderers and super-villains? Hell, they once combatted CHILD MOLESTATION. Who in the Hell would send POWER PACK to fight child molesters? That's like sending Ant-Man to fight the Orkin Man!

The characters' ages are famously hard to figure out. Alex Power started off looking 10-12-ish, but now resembles a teenage boy- almost a young man. The others have shot up and down in age so many times that it's hard to tell if they're still supposed to be children, or have all been aged into teens.

Power Levels:
I'm a bit stumped as to their Power Levels, though. Despite being a group of small children, their powers were rather impressive, and the one appearance I have of theirs where they do stuff, they handle themselves fairly well against the MARAUDERS of all people- not too long after the same group nearly annihilated the X-MEN. And problematically, the entire gang seems to switch powers on a regular basis, each kid going through two power-changes during the course of their series. I'll stick to their basic starting powers at first, leaving notes for their later power. As children, their Physical Stats are abysmal, and even the "smart" ones are only smart FOR CHILDREN, and thus are INT 0. The younger ones all have Innate Shrinking because of their small size, and usually INT in the negative numbers.
-Note that the kids' powers were switched around twice during the course of the series, with each kid having three sets of powers, before "Back To Basics" set in and things were returned to the original configuration for all later appearances of the squad. Despite this being a big part of the series (with the kids having to get used to brand-new power-sets and codenames), this is almost never referred to any longer.

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Sidious
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Re: Power Pack

Post by Sidious » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:14 am

Jabroniville wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:09 am
The characters' ages are famously hard to figure out. Alex Power started off looking 10-12-ish, but now resembles a teenage boy- almost a young man. The others have shot up and down in age so many times that it's hard to tell if they're still supposed to be children, or have all been aged into teens.
Actually the new Power Pack #63 helps out a lot with this. Katie is now 11 so 6 years has passed. If Alex was about 12 that would place him in the 17-18 range. Julie and Jack are in their teens still (I'd say Julies like 16 tops, and Jack is around 13-14). Shouldn't be that hard to extrapolate from those two sides.

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sersi! Deviants! Kronos! The Celestials! Power Pack!)

Post by Shock » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:35 am

Jabroniville wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:09 am
and the book debuted in 1984, lasting all the way until 1991 (ironically just when comics was hitting a peak during the Boom period).
On the plus side, it's probably a good thing they weren't around much in the 90s. That could have gotten ugly.

In other news, Google just told me there was a pilot for a Power Pack TV series in 1991

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Goldar
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sersi! Deviants! Kronos! The Celestials! Power Pack!)

Post by Goldar » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:59 am

Shock wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:35 am
Jabroniville wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:09 am
and the book debuted in 1984, lasting all the way until 1991 (ironically just when comics was hitting a peak during the Boom period).
On the plus side, it's probably a good thing they weren't around much in the 90s. That could have gotten ugly.

In other news, Google just told me there was a pilot for a Power Pack TV series in 1991
Really?? I never heard about it nor saw it. I wonder if it was any good, with the special effects of the time?

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sersi! Deviants! Kronos! The Celestials! Power Pack!)

Post by Shock » Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:08 am

Goldar wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:59 am
Shock wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:35 am
Jabroniville wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:09 am
and the book debuted in 1984, lasting all the way until 1991 (ironically just when comics was hitting a peak during the Boom period).
On the plus side, it's probably a good thing they weren't around much in the 90s. That could have gotten ugly.

In other news, Google just told me there was a pilot for a Power Pack TV series in 1991
Really?? I never heard about it nor saw it. I wonder if it was any good, with the special effects of the time?
It's on youtube. Take a look

MacynSnow
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Re: Power Pack

Post by MacynSnow » Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:09 am

Jabroniville wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:09 am
ImageImage

POWER PACK:
Power Pack was the brainchild of Louise Simonson, then the respected Editor of Chris Claremont's X-Books. With some free time thanks to Marvel's Editor-In-Chief hiring on several new writers, she came up to him with the concept for Power Pack, a book about CHILDREN super-heroes. June Brigman was the artist (because she had a talent for drawing children), and the book debuted in 1984, lasting all the way until 1991 (ironically just when comics was hitting a peak during the Boom period).

The Power siblings were a quartet of kids who gained powers after a horse-like alien named Aelfyre Whitemane appeared on Earth, giving them powers as a reward for helping him out. The kids naturally decided to become super-heroes, hiding this from their parents (who were caricatures of Louise and Walt Simonson- then a married couple). And they even interacted with other Marvel heroes, none of whom appeared overly concerned that five-year-old children were running around in tights, fighting dangerous criminals. Their most frequent enemies were The Snarks (a reptilian alien race) and The Bogeyman. The kids would inexplicably hide their secret identities from their OWN PARENTS, making the Power couple look like complete idiots (how do you not notice four children not being home at the same time?)- one comic undid the secret, but it was written out in a silly way (Dani Moonstar's illusions and a "oh, they were clones" explanation), which fans hated.

Taking part in the Mutant Massacre storyline, they did their damndest to ruin the pathos and horror of the moment. The New Mutants descended into the sewers around the same time, eager to help out the Morlocks... but Claremont wisely wrote them as being shattered by the experience of seeing all those dead bodies. The corpses had left them totally shaken, and agreeing that they should have never gone down there. I mean, they basically had shell-shock over it. Power Pack? Their mission had all the horror of an episode of The Smurfs, with the kids basically going "TRA-LA-LA LA-LA-LA!" and running around, fighting the Marauders and KNOCKING THEM OUT, when the mighty X-Men had suffered terrible losses (Nightcrawler, Colossus and Kitty Pryde were nearly permanently-injured). This, more than anything, made me despise the characters.

Where do you start with Power Pack? They're just so... eighties. A group of young kids introduced in the mid-80s, their book was partially a goofy superhero story, but had as much horror, real-life problems, and Very Special Episodes as any Marvel Comic on the rack, as well as most TV shows. Like I said, it was the '80s- you couldn't throw a stick without hitting a couple shows or books that featured drug addiction, child abduction or abuse. The book was mainly done by Louise Simonson, who I mostly hold as the person who wrecked The New Mutants once Chris Claremont left, but apparently the book had its own fanbase. Not that it helped them- an attempt by Michael Higgins (who I only know because of Bullpen Bulletins pages that I now realize painted him as a stoner) to "adult up" the book in the early '90s failed miserably, resulting in a swift cancellation in the days before the Great Comic Book Crash of the 1990s, and to say that decade would be unfriendly to kiddie-hero books like Power Pack would be a drastic, DRASTIC understatement.

So Power Pack kind of sat as more of a trivia question and a goofy history piece to the Marvel Universe, as very few writers, especially circa the "Iron Age", could take such a theme seriously (despite it's adult themes easily matching-up with the Iron Age). A handful of failed mini-series have started since the first cancellation, but nothing's ever really stuck- the oldest kid Alex even became a New Warrior, but fans apparently hated THAT change as well. Alex gets pushes here and there, and Julie was turned into a moron for The Loners, but nothing really lasts too long. Seems the book has a dedicated and ultra-loyal, but fairly unpleasable, fanbase to it. Unfortunately, the last thing you want to be in the entire world is a media with a very small, ultra-loyal, very noisy fanbase that hates everything new that comes out regarding it. Just look at the poor Doom Patrol.

It's actually kinda funny, though. I have little interaction with this book, but they crossed over with the X-books quite a bit (as well as the Fantastic Four- as Franklin Richards was once a member). They even did an unusual amount of crossing over with WOLVERINE specifically, but in the '80s, it was actually pretty normal for Captain Hard-Ass to have a lot of cute moments with kids, to attempt to humanize him (sorta like his constant teaming up with underage girls, but less creepy).

I must say, though... the idea of children superheroes is INCREDIBLY STUPID. Like, how would any hero on Earth not be horrified to see TINY CHILDREN running around in tights, engaging in fights with actual murderers and super-villains? Hell, they once combatted CHILD MOLESTATION. Who in the Hell would send POWER PACK to fight child molesters? That's like sending Ant-Man to fight the Orkin Man!

The characters' ages are famously hard to figure out. Alex Power started off looking 10-12-ish, but now resembles a teenage boy- almost a young man. The others have shot up and down in age so many times that it's hard to tell if they're still supposed to be children, or have all been aged into teens.

Power Levels:
I'm a bit stumped as to their Power Levels, though. Despite being a group of small children, their powers were rather impressive, and the one appearance I have of theirs where they do stuff, they handle themselves fairly well against the MARAUDERS of all people- not too long after the same group nearly annihilated the X-MEN. And problematically, the entire gang seems to switch powers on a regular basis, each kid going through two power-changes during the course of their series. I'll stick to their basic starting powers at first, leaving notes for their later power. As children, their Physical Stats are abysmal, and even the "smart" ones are only smart FOR CHILDREN, and thus are INT 0. The younger ones all have Innate Shrinking because of their small size, and usually INT in the negative numbers.
-Note that the kids' powers were switched around twice during the course of the series, with each kid having three sets of powers, before "Back To Basics" set in and things were returned to the original configuration for all later appearances of the squad. Despite this being a big part of the series (with the kids having to get used to brand-new power-sets and codenames), this is almost never referred to any longer.
In all honesty,"The Pack"(as i like to call them) was a bit of a guilty pleasure of mine to read back then. Whenever i'd finish a Major Avengers storyline(Operation:Galactic Storm,Assault on Avengers Mansion,etc.),i'd either buy a new Power Pack issue or read one of my old ones after they got cancelled(understandable,given what was going on in the Industry at the time). I think them & The Suicide Squad were the only non-Avengers related books i read at the time.
I can understand why they don't appeal to some people(as just like drinking Diet soda,it's an aqquired taste),but the fact that the stories were from the perspective of,at the oldest,a 12 year old was what drew me to it......

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Re: Power Pack

Post by Woodclaw » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:33 am

Jabroniville wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:09 am
ImageImage

POWER PACK:
Power Pack was the brainchild of Louise Simonson, then the respected Editor of Chris Claremont's X-Books. With some free time thanks to Marvel's Editor-In-Chief hiring on several new writers, she came up to him with the concept for Power Pack, a book about CHILDREN super-heroes. June Brigman was the artist (because she had a talent for drawing children), and the book debuted in 1984, lasting all the way until 1991 (ironically just when comics was hitting a peak during the Boom period).

The Power siblings were a quartet of kids who gained powers after a horse-like alien named Aelfyre Whitemane appeared on Earth, giving them powers as a reward for helping him out. The kids naturally decided to become super-heroes, hiding this from their parents (who were caricatures of Louise and Walt Simonson- then a married couple). And they even interacted with other Marvel heroes, none of whom appeared overly concerned that five-year-old children were running around in tights, fighting dangerous criminals. Their most frequent enemies were The Snarks (a reptilian alien race) and The Bogeyman. The kids would inexplicably hide their secret identities from their OWN PARENTS, making the Power couple look like complete idiots (how do you not notice four children not being home at the same time?)- one comic undid the secret, but it was written out in a silly way (Dani Moonstar's illusions and a "oh, they were clones" explanation), which fans hated.

Taking part in the Mutant Massacre storyline, they did their damndest to ruin the pathos and horror of the moment. The New Mutants descended into the sewers around the same time, eager to help out the Morlocks... but Claremont wisely wrote them as being shattered by the experience of seeing all those dead bodies. The corpses had left them totally shaken, and agreeing that they should have never gone down there. I mean, they basically had shell-shock over it. Power Pack? Their mission had all the horror of an episode of The Smurfs, with the kids basically going "TRA-LA-LA LA-LA-LA!" and running around, fighting the Marauders and KNOCKING THEM OUT, when the mighty X-Men had suffered terrible losses (Nightcrawler, Colossus and Kitty Pryde were nearly permanently-injured). This, more than anything, made me despise the characters.

Where do you start with Power Pack? They're just so... eighties. A group of young kids introduced in the mid-80s, their book was partially a goofy superhero story, but had as much horror, real-life problems, and Very Special Episodes as any Marvel Comic on the rack, as well as most TV shows. Like I said, it was the '80s- you couldn't throw a stick without hitting a couple shows or books that featured drug addiction, child abduction or abuse. The book was mainly done by Louise Simonson, who I mostly hold as the person who wrecked The New Mutants once Chris Claremont left, but apparently the book had its own fanbase. Not that it helped them- an attempt by Michael Higgins (who I only know because of Bullpen Bulletins pages that I now realize painted him as a stoner) to "adult up" the book in the early '90s failed miserably, resulting in a swift cancellation in the days before the Great Comic Book Crash of the 1990s, and to say that decade would be unfriendly to kiddie-hero books like Power Pack would be a drastic, DRASTIC understatement.

So Power Pack kind of sat as more of a trivia question and a goofy history piece to the Marvel Universe, as very few writers, especially circa the "Iron Age", could take such a theme seriously (despite it's adult themes easily matching-up with the Iron Age). A handful of failed mini-series have started since the first cancellation, but nothing's ever really stuck- the oldest kid Alex even became a New Warrior, but fans apparently hated THAT change as well. Alex gets pushes here and there, and Julie was turned into a moron for The Loners, but nothing really lasts too long. Seems the book has a dedicated and ultra-loyal, but fairly unpleasable, fanbase to it. Unfortunately, the last thing you want to be in the entire world is a media with a very small, ultra-loyal, very noisy fanbase that hates everything new that comes out regarding it. Just look at the poor Doom Patrol.

It's actually kinda funny, though. I have little interaction with this book, but they crossed over with the X-books quite a bit (as well as the Fantastic Four- as Franklin Richards was once a member). They even did an unusual amount of crossing over with WOLVERINE specifically, but in the '80s, it was actually pretty normal for Captain Hard-Ass to have a lot of cute moments with kids, to attempt to humanize him (sorta like his constant teaming up with underage girls, but less creepy).

I must say, though... the idea of children superheroes is INCREDIBLY STUPID. Like, how would any hero on Earth not be horrified to see TINY CHILDREN running around in tights, engaging in fights with actual murderers and super-villains? Hell, they once combatted CHILD MOLESTATION. Who in the Hell would send POWER PACK to fight child molesters? That's like sending Ant-Man to fight the Orkin Man!

The characters' ages are famously hard to figure out. Alex Power started off looking 10-12-ish, but now resembles a teenage boy- almost a young man. The others have shot up and down in age so many times that it's hard to tell if they're still supposed to be children, or have all been aged into teens.
For a very long time I was in the same camp as Jab, the idea of pre-teen superheroes breezing through most horrific moments without a problem felt so very wrong and yet it somehow made sense: we all dreamed about being superheroes at some point growing up and, I guess, Power Pack was an attempt to capitalize on that feeling. Even so the big problem was how the Pack interacted with the rest of the MU at large, most heroes seemed not to take issue with the fact that a bunch of pre-teens were going along for the ride. As a stand alone book Power Pack worked because it was, for all intent and purposes, almost a pure kid fantasy adventure superhero style, but when paired with other character they crumbled, with very few exceptions (Thor and the Warriors Four being the most noticeable in recent memory). Funny, enough I have pretty much similar issues with the Runaways, although in that case is because every character appearing alongside them seem to take a massive dose of idiot ball.

One unrelated note, I can't shake the feeling that Louise Simonson was reading The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe when she created the Powers. The personalities and roles of the Powers and the Pevensie siblings are almost an exact match: Alex/Peter the ultra-responsible big brother and leader, Julie/Susan the smart and somehow skeptic big sister, Jack/Edmund the bratty younger brother with a heart of gold, Katie/Lucy the younger sister with incredible potential.
"You're right. Sorry. Holy shit," I breathed, "heckhounds.”

Jabroniville
Posts: 5097
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Alex Power

Post by Jabroniville » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:30 am

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ALEX POWER (aka Gee, Destroyer, Mass Master, Powerpax, Powerhouse)
Created By:
Louise Simonson & June Brigman
First Appearance: Power Pack #1 (June 1984)
Role: Bossy Older Sibling
Group Affiliations: Power Pack
PL 8 (93)
STRENGTH
-1 STAMINA 0 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 4 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Aerobatics 4 (+6)
Deception 4 (+4)
Expertise (Pop Culture) 2 (+2)
Insight 2 (+3)
Perception 1 (+2)
Persuasion 3 (+3)
Stealth 4 (+6)

Advantages:
Benefit (Kymellian Smartship- Friday), Equipment 3 (Friday), Set-Up, Teamwork

Powers:
"Gravity Powers" Move Object 8 (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Perception Range, Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited to Up or Down) (25) -- [29]
  • Dynamic AE: Deflect 8 (8)
  • Dynamic AE: Environment 8 (Impede Movement 2) (16)
"Limited Flight" Flight 5 (Flaws: Limited to Up or Down) [5]
"Kymellian Healing Factor" Regeneration 2 [2]

"Power Pack Costume" 10 points (Flaws: Removable) [8]
Movement (Dimension- Elsewhere) (2)
Senses (Communication Link- Friday) (1)
Morph 1 (Clothes to Costume) (1)
Protection 1 (1)
Features 5 (Buys off Flaw on Flight) (5)

Offense:
Unarmed +4 (-1 Damage, DC 14)
Gravity Power +8 Area (+8 Move, DC 18)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +9 (DC 19), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +0 (+1 Costume), Fortitude +4, Will +6

Complications:
Reputation (Bossy)- Alex can be a meanie and a bully to his younger siblings, often being compared to the groups' villains.
Rivalry (Johnny Rival)- A bully in his class, the two feuded often. They nearly made friends once, but Johnny's brother was killed in a drug deal gone wrong, and Alex failed to save him, making their rivalry worse.
Relationship (Parents)- The Power Pack kids are devoted to their parents, but try to hide their powers nonetheless, believing it'd worry them.

Total: Abilities: 12 / Skills: 20--10 / Advantages: 6 / Powers: 44 / Defenses: 21 (93)

-Alex Power is the somewhat-bullying and bossy older brother of the team, and de facto leader since he's the oldest (as an older sibling myself, I can empathize). He's sort of the "main character" of sorts, and spends a lot of time picking on his siblings and being annoyed by them. For a while, he was replaced by a clone thanks to the Snark Queen. Fabian Nicieza eventually wrote Alex on to The New Warriors, where he STOLE the powers of the other kids and used them as "Powerpax", a move Power Pack fans hated- this, however, was quickly dropped, like most things on the "later-era" New Warriors book.

-Alex was rumoured to be on an Initiative team, but that never went anywhere either- he eventually repented and went back to the team. There seems to be some problem nailing down just how old he IS (12-13 in the original series, upgraded between there and 16-17 later on), like most youngster characters, but when he joins the Future Foundation in Jon Hickman's great and popular FF run, he's nineteen, resembling a very young, inexperience man who is sort of the "in-charge" one of the Foundation's kids, bodyguarding them a bit.

-Alex is most famous for his Gravity Powers, which are basically a simple Move Object often used to push guys down or toss them up into the air, and rather limited in terms of Alternate Effects and the like. He requires Wings on his costume to buy off a Flaw for his Flight, and is probably the toughest of his team (which is to say, not tough at all- the slightest hit could take him out). His Perception-Range power makes him PL 8, easily the highest of his group. He has had both Disintegration and Mass Shifting powers in the past (powers to be built on other siblings later).

-All of the siblings share the cost of Friday, their sentient (Benefit) flying ship (Equipment). They also possess an Insta-Changing Costume that provides limited Protection and Dimensional Travel, and Kymellian healing abilities (apparently), allowing broken bones to heal fairly quickly.

As "Destroyer", Alex's powers were:
"Energizing"
"Explosive Ball of Energy" Blast 10 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst +2) (Flaws: Unreliable) (Quirk: Activation -2) (28) -- [29]
  • AE: "Disintegration" Blast 8 Linked to Weaken Toughness 6 (Extras: Ranged) (28)
As "Mass Master", Alex's powers were:
"Density Control"
"Dense Form" (53) -- [56]
  • AE: Cloud Form (13)
  • AE: Liquid Form (Insubstantial 2) (10)
  • AE: Force Field 8 (Feats: Reach 2) (Extras: Affects Others) (16)
"Cloud Form" Alternate Form 14 points (Quirk: Move Action to Activiate) (13)
Flight 2 (4)
Insubstantial 2 (10)

"Dense Form" Alternate Form 54 points (Quirk: Move Action to Activate) (53)
Enhanced Strength 9 (18)
Enhanced Strength 2 (Flaws: Limited to Resisting Movement) (2)
Shrinking 9 (12 inches) (Extras: Normal Strength) (18)
Protection 8 (Extras: Impervious) (16)

Jabroniville
Posts: 5097
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Julie Power

Post by Jabroniville » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:47 pm

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JULIE POWER (aka Lightspeed, Molecula Mistress of Density, Starstreak)
Created By:
Louise Simonson & June Brigman
First Appearance: Power Pack #1 (June 1984)
Role: The Wallflower, The Well-Read One, Team Mom
Group Affiliations: Power Pack
PL 6 (88)
STRENGTH
-2 STAMINA 0 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 4 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 0

Skills: 
Aerobatics 5 (+7)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+6)
Close Combat (Flying Ram) 4 (+8)
Deception 3 (+3)
Expertise (Pop Culture) 2 (+2)
Insight 2 (+3)
Perception 2 (+3)
Persuasion 5 (+6)
Stealth 3 (+5, +7 Size)

Advantages: 
Benefit (Kymellian Smartship- Friday), Equipment 3 (Friday), Set-Up, Teamwork

Powers:
"Child-Size" Shrinking 2 (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [3]
(-2 Strength, -1 Movement, +1 Dodge/Parry, -1 Intimidation)

"Lightspeed, But Not Really" Flight 10 [20]
"Flying Ram" Damage 4 [4]
"Kymellian Healing Factor" Regeneration 2 [2]

"Power Pack Costume" 5 points (Flaws: Removable) [4]
Movement (Dimension- Elsewhere) (2)
Senses (Communication Link- Friday) (1)
Morph 1 (Clothes to Costume) (1)
Protection 1 (1)

Offense:
Unarmed +6 (-2 Damage, DC 13)
Flying Ram +7 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (+11 Size) (DC 21), Parry +9 (+10 Size) (DC 20), Toughness +0 (+1 Costume), Fortitude +3, Will +5

Complications: 
Reputation (Shy)- Julie rarely speaks up, and prefers to be alone.
Prejudice (Child)- Julie is much too young to be overly trusted or believed by most adults.
Relationship (Parents)- The Power Pack kids are devoted to their parents, but try to hide their powers nonetheless, believing it'd worry them. 
Power Loss (Flight)- Julie can only stay aloft so long as she is perpetually moving- attempts to "hover" or stop in mid-flight will simply send her falling. 

Total: Abilities: 14 / Skills: 28--14 / Advantages: 6 / Powers: 33 / Defenses: 21 (88)

-Julie was the most level-headed of the Power children- a wallflower who has to deal with bullying and the usual kid stuff. The second-oldest, she was more mature than her younger siblings by a ways, and sort of acted as the "Team Mother". Of the entire team, she's been the biggest "mess" in continuity, largely because she was chosen to be one of Exclesior (later called "The Loners") in the Runaways arc that saw a band of "Failed Kid Heroes" form a group that tried to convince the Runaways to give up their superhero careers and retire (they were paid by Rick Jones, who wanted the kids to return to foster care). As that series was largely "Kids (vs) Adults", this was perhaps a fitting storyline, but it involved the bastardization of a heck of a lot of low-tier characters, and making them into joke failures, annoying pretty much all of their fans. Julie, by this point, was inexplicably a 17-year-old girl, aging about six years between 1991 and 2004-ish.

-More annoyingly to Power Pack fans, Julie was now depicted as an airheaded, vapid wannabe actress, living in Los Angeles and now possibly being into chicks. This goofy persona change was eventually written out in the most clumsy, "yeah, it was dumb, but we have to assume it still happened" manner possible, as she reveals her dumb persona was a FACADE, meant to help her "fit in" with her teammates (though some "dumb jokes" continue, meaning she might have been lying). After The Runaways ended, Julie popped up in Avengers Academy, acting as a student and teacher's assistant, and finally confirms that she's bisexual. She finally starts dating Karolina Dean, just as both characters disappear from continuity.

-Julie's a bit tough, because it seems she doesn't even really have an offensive power as Lightspeed. So I threw in a "Flying Ram" attack that could deal damage, making him PL 6. She's much more easy to figure out as Molecula, where she gains Shrinking, Density/Strength, Growth, and more. 

As "Molecula", Julie's powers were:
"Density Control"
"Dense Form" (53) -- [56]
  • AE: Cloud Form (13)
  • AE: Force Field 8 (Feats: Reach 2) (Extras: Affects Others) (16)
  • AE: "Tall Form" Growth 4 (Flaws: Limited to Non-STR & STA Growths) (4)
"Cloud Form" Alternate Form 14 points (Quirk: Move Action to Activiate) (13)
Flight 2 (4)
Insubstantial 2 (10)

"Dense Form" Alternate Form 54 points (Quirk: Move Action to Activate) (53)
Enhanced Strength 9 (18)
Enhanced Strength 2 (Flaws: Limited to Resisting Movement) (2)
Shrinking 9 (12 inches) (Extras: Normal Strength) (18)
Protection 8 (Extras: Impervious) (16)
Last edited by Jabroniville on Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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