Jab’s Builds! (Lawnmower Man! Samus Aran! Metroids!)

[bsdigitalq]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind JaneThor so much if she had a better design. I HATE the mask helm (which I hated back when Masterson was wearing it), and I hate the dark, pupiless eyes. That's the look of a villain, not a hero. Also, the stupid "skirt + cape" combo. Either go for a skirt or a cape. The two together look stupid. So frankly, she could be the best written character in the world, but I wouldn't bother because of the design she has.

[drkrash]

How many guys with god-killing names are there, anyway? Gorr the God-Butcher, Grog the God-Slayer, Desak the God Slayer..

To be fair, all you go to do is take out a god and you have some right to the title.
That being said, how many of those guys have actually had any success in the god slaying?

In the Gorr story, I think he succeeded in killing thousands of "gods."

The huge metaphysical problem with this is that "god" evidently means "super powerful being capable of helping mortal beings," which is an insufficient definition in itself. Since that definition would include every top-tier superhero regardless of origin, it creates a subtext that all superheroes are unworthy of the adulation given to them. If this is the writer's perspective, it sucks *so bad* and mocks the long-time fans of comic books in general.

Man, ignorance was bliss on this one.

[Jabroniville]

Well, "God" is somewhat more specific in Marvel comics, in they form actual pantheons, are worshipped, etc. The exact point between Superhero (vs) God is pretty minor if you really THINK about it, but Gods are almost always classed separately.

[Jabroniville]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind JaneThor so much if she had a better design. I HATE the mask helm (which I hated back when Masterson was wearing it), and I hate the dark, pupiless eyes. That's the look of a villain, not a hero. Also, the stupid "skirt + cape" combo. Either go for a skirt or a cape. The two together look stupid. So frankly, she could be the best written character in the world, but I wouldn't bother because of the design she has.

Yeah, it seems like they just stuck a lot of random design elements onto one character. The mask seems to be to make her look tougher, as "beautiful blonde woman in a cape" isn't really an intimidating look. It also de-sexualizes her a fair bit, which I would bet money is part of the point. But then she's got that loincloth-skirt thing, but it's in like three pieces (the back half of which looks like a burlap sack, and there's that giant belt with a mini-belt below it, and she's got that breastplate, but it's over top of that weird "open shirt" thing that's held together by clasps, and she has a little diamond-logo thingie under her breasts for some reason... it's all kind of weird when placed together.

[Jabroniville]

Thor becoming unworthy in Original Sin was a problem with that story (though sadly, far from the worst problem with that story); I never found out what his "sin" was. Can anyone fill me in beyond Jab's brief phrase above?

Basically, before all that, Jason Aaron had Thor fight an alien called Gorr the God Butcher who believed that gods were a pox on reality. The words that NIck Fury spoke were "Gorr was right" -- not only is Thor not worthy, none of the gods are.

I read the God Butcher story (hated it on many levels). This is both really stupid and not even logically consistent. If none of the gods are worthy, then JaneThor isn't either.

Well, JaneThor is mortal, which might be the point of that.

[drkrash]

Well, "God" is somewhat more specific in Marvel comics, in they form actual pantheons, are worshipped, etc. The exact point between Superhero (vs) God is pretty minor if you really THINK about it, but Gods are almost always classed separately.

Oh, I get that, sure. But the boundary is a LOT more fuzzy than it seems to be. JaneThor is a case in point: despite having ALL of the powers of the Thunder God, she's somehow *not* the Thunder God because she's only a mortal and not worshipped?

And my memories of the Gorr story are fuzzy, but I thought some of the gods he killed were no longer even worshipped.

It doesn't work without defining "god" as a separate entity of creature altogether, rather than a job description.

[Davies]

Oh, I get that, sure. But the boundary is a LOT more fuzzy than it seems to be. JaneThor is a case in point: despite having ALL of the powers of the Thunder God, she's somehow *not* the Thunder God because she's only a mortal and not worshipped?

Dis is apparently de argument of de storyline. <shrug>

[Arkrite]

THOR, GOD OF THUNDER (Jane Foster)

My biggest and only real issue is that Thor isn't a title. God of Thunder is a title. Thor is a name.

I just kind of expect Thor to... say something about that.

"I am Thor!" -Jane
"Uh... You know that's my name, right?" -Thor
"Huh?" -Jane
"That's my name. You're claiming to be me." -Thor
"No, I'm claiming to be Thor, God of Thunder." -Jane
"Shouldn't you be Jane, God of Thunder?" -Thor
"Look, it's a superhero thing, they have the black guy who's Captain America-" -Jane
"Sam Wilson?" -Thor
"Yeah, Sam! Nobody complains about that." -Jane
::both turn to give knowing look at the camera::
"Yes, but he's not claiming to be Steve Rogers, he's just claiming to be Captain America. He's taking on the role." -Thor
"That's what I'm doing, I'm taking on your role." -Jane
"*sigh* Fine, whatever, just call me Jane from now on." -Thor
"Well that's just silly." -Jane

That being said, from what I'm hearing here...
-Wouldn't it be really interesting to have Thor in the role of a mentor and trainer showing Jane the ropes and teaching her how to come into the powers the hammer offers? It allows you to have your cake and eat it too. Thor is still a part of his own comic and you have an excuse for why Jane could be coming up to his level in short order.
Plus all the fun issues with their previous relationship, and how that's interacting with their current love interests. (Amora, you have a trainwreck to conduct!)

-Jane transforms into "Thor" with a different personality? If this isn't just her just acting then I start wondering about the writer.
He did know that Thor wasn't originally a doctor right? That Thor was trapped in the Doctor's body to teach him humility? Jane transforming into a form with Thor's power shouldn't really change her personality...

Maybe it's just me.

-And then... I got to THAT issue. You know the one. The Absorbing Man decides that feminism sucks, goes on a rant that is meant to make fun of anyone who's annoyed at a favorite character being swapped out, then gets his ass kicked by Jane, who says "THAT'S FOR SAYING 'FEMINIST' LIKE IT'S A DIRTY WORD!", and then Carl Creel's own wife knocks his ass out, voluntarily giving up to Jane because "I respect what you're trying to do here"... It was AWFUL!

...
I just don't have the words for this one.
I mean, Creel saying dumb stuff seems pretty on par. But him getting pissy about women's rights when his own wife kicks as much ass as he does and is the brains of the operation? It's pretty odd.
But hey, he's an idiot, it could happen. But you got a good opportunity to make some justified responses to these comments, and by somebody he actually loves and respects (His wife, not JaneThor). A good opportunity to offer a new view to the readers.

Instead beat-down ensues.

I'm just saying, usually people lashed out at me in violence when they couldn't argue my point. And because I'm an annoying git. Mostly the annoying git part.

And then his wife gets them sent to jail as sign of solidarity for... feminism?
Uh... there's got to be a better way for a career criminal super villain to show respect that doesn't involve going straight to jail.
... Unless they were planning a redemption angle for Titania where she goes straight as JaneThor's sidekick while Creel tags along as the comic relief?

[Jabroniville]

heh- the What If? Jane-As-Thor comic:

[danelsan]

Unless they were planning a redemption angle for Titania where she goes straight as JaneThor's sidekick while Creel tags along as the comic relief?

Okay, that situation with Titania was ridiculous, but get the people behind Superior Foes of Spider-Man on this idea and I'm on board

[Woodclaw]

All in all I don't mind Jane Foster as Thor as much as I thought, I was much more irked by Riri Williams as Iron-Whatever because that was a character introduced just to take over in an attempt to be ultra-progressive. In general I always thought that Marvel sucks at legacy characters because there's one fundamental flaw in its editoral DNA: heroes rarely trust each other unless they're part of a team. Sergio Aragones made fun of it in special comic he wrote while visiting the Italian branch of Marvel: "Rule #316, when two or more Marvel heroes find themselves in the same place at the same time they will try to beat the living shit out of each other."
If I look at the current line-up of legacy attempt there are a number that I either really like or I think they made sense (mostly Kate Bishop, X-23, Khamala Kahn, partially Miles Morales), some that I don't mind (Jane Foster), some that I'm not okay with but make sense (Sam Wilson). As I said above the only one that I considered a major fuck up is Riri Williams because everyone else was either an established character that stepped into the role or a character that was given his/her own identity adn some time to develop it.

-Jane transforms into "Thor" with a different personality? If this isn't just her just acting then I start wondering about the writer.
He did know that Thor wasn't originally a doctor right? That Thor was trapped in the Doctor's body to teach him humility? Jane transforming into a form with Thor's power shouldn't really change her personality...

As far as I understand Jane's personality doesn't change when she transforms but, for some unexplained reason, when she does her speech got trasliterated into the same pseudo-shakespearian English that other Asgardians use. The weird bit is that none of the other Thor-expys suffered from it.

-And then... I got to THAT issue. You know the one. The Absorbing Man decides that feminism sucks, goes on a rant that is meant to make fun of anyone who's annoyed at a favorite character being swapped out, then gets his ass kicked by Jane, who says "THAT'S FOR SAYING 'FEMINIST' LIKE IT'S A DIRTY WORD!", and then Carl Creel's own wife knocks his ass out, voluntarily giving up to Jane because "I respect what you're trying to do here"... It was AWFUL!

...
I just don't have the words for this one.
I mean, Creel saying dumb stuff seems pretty on par. But him getting pissy about women's rights when his own wife kicks as much ass as he does and is the brains of the operation? It's pretty odd.
But hey, he's an idiot, it could happen. But you got a good opportunity to make some justified responses to these comments, and by somebody he actually loves and respects (His wife, not JaneThor). A good opportunity to offer a new view to the readers.

Instead beat-down ensues.

I'm just saying, usually people lashed out at me in violence when they couldn't argue my point. And because I'm an annoying git. Mostly the annoying git part.

And then his wife gets them sent to jail as sign of solidarity for... feminism?
Uh... there's got to be a better way for a career criminal super villain to show respect that doesn't involve going straight to jail.
... Unless they were planning a redemption angle for Titania where she goes straight as JaneThor's sidekick while Creel tags along as the comic relief?

Okay, I missed that issue and I'm kind of glad I did. In spite of his many moral failures Creel was never sexist, in fact I alwasy thought that the entire foundation of his marriage was that he threated Titania as a person and not as a sexual object from the very beginning. I mean when she first appeared in Secret Wars and actually challenged him he refused not because she is a woman, but simply because he didn't give a damn. Later on, after she proven to be damn strong, he was actually the one to look for her help in taking down Doom. All in all, it was more or less a Roger Rabbit and Jessica kind of affair.



Also remember: replacement can go much, much worse.

[Arkrite]

Oh god... the fast food Avengers.

[HalloweenJack]

Oh god... the fast food Avengers.

BE QUIET!....Marvel might hear you........

[Arkrite]

Did you just imply that Marvel listens to their fans? ;~)

[KorokoMystia]

Speaking of fast food and superheroes, anyone remember those times DC crossed over with KFC? It's so gloriously stupid that it's awesome.