Batgirl III's Character Thread (Tee Hee, Baron Samedi)

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Batgirl III
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Re: Batgirl III's Character Thread (Rosa Klebb)

Post by Batgirl III » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:19 pm

The Spy Who Loved Me is my favorite Bond novel, solely for personal reasons. It’s got the least amount of Bond in it, is very different in tone and style from everything else in the series, and is just generally very out of place in the series. But, well, I was an eleven year old girl in the beginnings of puberty when I found it... the fact that it’s pretty much a trashy romance novel about a teenage girl’s sexual awakening, becoming independent of her family, moving to America and then having a torrid affair with Batma— uh, I mean, James Bond... Yeah, this book ticked some boxes.

Taking a more ‘Bond novels should be about Bond’ approach, then my favorite novels are probably Casino Royale, Dr. No, and On Her Majesty’s Secret Service. What can I say?

Are the Bond novels misogynistic? I don’t think so, although they are filled with misogynistic characters.

Are the Bond novels racist? No, they are filled with racist characters, but at the same time non-white characters are as likely to be trusted allies as they are twisted villains.

Are the Bond novels jingoistic? Hell yes, but that’s alright by me.

Fleming’s James Bond is an amoral asshole, but he’s not a misogynist or a racist. He’s too much of a misanthrope to hate someone for being a woman or having different ethnicity, he doesn’t discriminate. He’s an amoral asshole towards everybody.
Last edited by Batgirl III on Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Batgirl III's Character Thread (Rosa Klebb)

Post by Ken » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:45 pm

Batgirl III wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:19 pm
The Spy Who Loved Me is my favorite Bond novel, solely for personal reasons. It’s got the least amount of Bond in it, is very different in tone and style from everything else in the series, and is just generally very out of place in the series. But, well, I was an eleven year old girl in the beginnings of puberty when I found it... the fact that it’s pretty much a trashy romance novel about a teenage girl’s sexual awakening, becoming independent of her family, moving to America and then having a torrid affair with Batma— uh, I mean, James Bond... Yeah, this book ticked some boxes.
I'm glad you enjoyed it. I can understand why.
Batgirl III wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:19 pm
Are the Bond novels racist? No, they are filled with misogynistic characters, but at the same time non-white characters are as likely to be trusted allies as they are twisted villains.
Really, no one should be able to -um- Quarrel with this observation.
Batgirl III wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:19 pm
Fleming’s James Bond is an amoral asshole, but he’s not a misogynist or a racist. He’s too much of a misanthrope to hate someone for being a woman or having different ethnicity, he doesn’t discriminate. He’s an amoral asshole towards everybody.
Yup. That's something that the Craig movies tend to get right, but for some reason other characters only see or call him out on the female half of it.

My favourite of the books is Moonraker, and for reasons unrelated to the Bond characters. When my parents were teaching my siblings and I to play bridge, Dad decided to share the sequence of M, Bond, and Drax in Blades with me. And it did increase my interest in the game. It also had the side effect of starting me reading Flemming.
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Re: Batgirl III's Character Thread (Rosa Klebb)

Post by greycrusader » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:46 pm

Batgirl III wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:19 pm
The Spy Who Loved Me is my favorite Bond novel, solely for personal reasons. It’s got the least amount of Bond in it, is very different in tone and style from everything else in the series, and is just generally very out of place in the series. But, well, I was an eleven year old girl in the beginnings of puberty when I found it... the fact that it’s pretty much a trashy romance novel about a teenage girl’s sexual awakening, becoming independent of her family, moving to America and then having a torrid affair with Batma— uh, I mean, James Bond... Yeah, this book ticked some boxes.

Taking a more ‘Bond novels should be about Bond’ approach, then my favorite novels are probably Casino Royale, Dr. No, and On Her Majesty’s Secret Service. What can I say?

Are the Bond novels misogynistic? I don’t think so, although they are filled with misogynistic characters.

Are the Bond novels racist? No, they are filled with racist characters, but at the same time non-white characters are as likely to be trusted allies as they are twisted villains.

Are the Bond novels jingoistic? Hell yes, but that’s alright by me.

Fleming’s James Bond is an amoral asshole, but he’s not a misogynist or a racist. He’s too much of a misanthrope to hate someone for being a woman or having different ethnicity, he doesn’t discriminate. He’s an amoral asshole towards everybody.
Not certain I'd characterize Bond as amoral, as he wouldn't betray friends or allies, is loyal to his country, doesn't perform (AFAIK) criminal acts or lie, cheat, steal, etc, except in the course of a mission. Definitely jaded, casual about violence as a political tool, promiscuous, and hedonistic.

The difference between J.B. and say, Moore's Comedian, is Edward Blake is all those things, but also a cynic; he believes humanity is doomed to extinction or barbarism at best, and so doesn't restrain himself from casually brutal acts. In his younger days, or when drunk, the Comedian is also more violently impulsive, especially towards women.

(The hack job Moore did on Bond's character in LoEG is offensive; instead of a justifiable deconstruction-which would be acceptable-he portrayed "Jimmy" as slightly inept and mercenary, relying on an undeserved reputation.)

All my best.

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Re: Batgirl III's Character Thread (Rosa Klebb)

Post by slade the sniper » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:35 am

greycrusader wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:43 pm
The Bond novels/character present a few...issues, I suppose, to modern readers. Aside from the debauchery and substance abuse, chauvinism, and casual racism, J.B. engages in at least one instance of date rape against Pussy Galore (arguably so in the movie version, where Pussy Galore's lesbianism isn't nearly as explicit and where the character responds after token resistance). And of course, the books/films reflect the prevailing racial stereotypes, disdain for gay people, and women-as-sex-objects-or-subordinates attitudes of the era.

Now, I'm a big fan of a LOT of earlier pop culture stuff, and understandably, many of these works prior to the civil rights struggles of modern decades share elements which are not just "politically incorrect" but clearly offensive and demeaning to minorities, women, and gay people. But these can at least be understood in context of the times, so long as they don't become too explicit or aren't important plot points. So yeah, there's some casually racist attitudes in the Conan books, and sexist stuff in a lot of fantasy literature, esp. the swords and sorcery stuff. But the Horseclans series, which I enjoyed as a teen,early twenty-something? Yeah...ALL the gay characters in Robert Adams books are depraved, cowardly, sneaky, criminal, and most are outright pedophiles. The one time a homosexual (briefly) does a Heel-Face turn, it involves becoming more "masculine", admitting his past sins, and marrying a Clans-woman! Then in the next book, he reverts to his prior sexuality and promptly drowns in an accident. Not good.

Likewise, I can accept how few actual Native American actors existed then (or now, for that matter), so having white people in "red-face" portray them in most Westerns isn't terribly offensive in and of itself (though the underlying conditions WERE terrible, of course); but something as egregious as Mickey Rooney in "yellow-face" with goggle-glasses and buckteeth doing pidgin English in Breakfast at Tiffany's...ugh. No, no excuse, even at that time, and it renders the film virtually unwatchable for me.

(Note: I'm less incensed about the recent "controversy" with ScarJo being cast in a transgender role; of course I understand trans-people face discrimination an outright hostility in many aspects of life, and trans-actors get almost NO roles in Hollywood. But the pool of trans-actors with enough visibility and star power to get cast in a big budget production is insignificant, currently. I do realize this can be a vicious cycle of sorts, as actors don't GET power in Hollywood until they start getting cast, but its not an easy fix.)

All my best.
I agree with you about 1000%, but since I watched all 104 episodes of The Fosters with my daughter, love Dear White People (but not Sam, she is a hypocritical character...good actress, awful character), my kids have two gay godfathers, I'm pretty sure I'm covered in watching/reading any sort of pre-woke media as it is presented for that period.

Importing/exporting morality from one location/time to another is pretty much a guaranteed headache.

Also, I prefer to think of James Bond as a code name that gets passed along from agent to agent...rather like M, or Q.
Batgirl III wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:19 pm
Are the Bond novels jingoistic? Hell yes, but that’s alright by me.

Fleming’s James Bond is an amoral asshole, but he’s not a misogynist or a racist. He’s too much of a misanthrope to hate someone for being a woman or having different ethnicity, he doesn’t discriminate. He’s an amoral asshole towards everybody.
Is it even possible to be jingoistic for the UK (or Canada)? They are always (Bond notwithstanding) stuck with cheap ripoffs of US stuff...post 1920 or abouts.

-STS

[spoiler]
It is late at night, I am bored, and less than stable, so all of this is in jest
[/spoiler]
Last edited by slade the sniper on Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Batgirl III's Character Thread (Rosa Klebb)

Post by Batgirl III » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:44 am

Also, I prefer to think of James Bond as a code name that gets passed along from agent to agent...rather like M, or Q
This was my “head canon” until Skyfall came along. The Bond family is armigerous — the family coat of arms is an important plot point in On Her Majety’s Secret Service and Skyfall, with a minor reference (and source of the title) in The World Is Not Enough. I could justify Brosnan!Bond making a passing reference / sarcastic joke about the Lazenby!Bond family motto... But when Craig!Bond actually goes to the family home of Skyfall in, um, Skyfall it shoots the whole theory in the foot.
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Re: Batgirl III's Character Thread (Rosa Klebb)

Post by slade the sniper » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:48 am

So, I just learned a new word... "armigerous".

Given that information, um, what is a/the way to make Bond active from 1953 to 2017?

-STS

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Re: Batgirl III's Character Thread (Rosa Klebb)

Post by Batgirl III » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:00 am

Handwave it away and invoke comic book time. Like the Batman has perpetually been guarding Gotham City “for about ten years now,” James Bond has been a Double-0 agent for “about five years now” and was non Double-0 agent for MI-6 for “several years before that.”
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Re: Batgirl III's Character Thread (Rosa Klebb)

Post by Jack of Spades » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:21 pm

Or just ignore the Craig Bonds. I don't think they even take place in the same universe. I certainly don't enjoy them as much as, well, any other Bond. (No disrespect to Daniel Craig; he does a fine job. It's just not the kind of story I want to see for Bond. Bourne, maybe.)
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Re: Batgirl III's Character Thread (Rosa Klebb)

Post by Shadowmask » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:06 pm

Maybe "James Bond" was a gimmick created by the BSS and the Double O's are a sham, M occasionally recruits agents to be James Bond perhaps with some brainwashing and added reprogrammed false memories and if "Bond" gets killed, then they simply get another agent which explains why each "Bond" looks and acts differently in their methods over the years.

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Re: Batgirl III's Character Thread (Rosa Klebb)

Post by L-Space » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:41 pm

Bond is obviously a Time Lord (or descendant there of), with a secondary psychic ability that makes people accept his new look as the default.
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Re: Batgirl III's Character Thread (Rosa Klebb)

Post by Batgirl III » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:55 pm

Or the Lazenby!Bond had a nephew who grew up to be the Craig!Bond, inheriting Skyfall, when he grew up. This would bring the The Adventures of James Bond Junior 003½ novel into continuity.
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Re: Batgirl III's Character Thread (Rosa Klebb)

Post by Ken » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:19 pm

L-Space wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:41 pm
Bond is obviously a Time Lord (or descendant there of), with a secondary psychic ability that makes people accept his new look as the default.
James Bond, a Time Lord? I don't think s....

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Re: Batgirl III's Character Thread (Rosa Klebb)

Post by Batgirl III » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:22 pm

Technically, Rassilon is not a Time Lord. He is the Lord High President of Gallifrey and thus outranks the Time Lords and Time Ladies. It’s a peerage thing.
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Re: Batgirl III's Character Thread (Rosa Klebb)

Post by Ken » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:23 pm

greycrusader wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:46 pm
The hack job Moore did on Bond's character in LoEG is offensive;
The hack job Moore did on Bond's character in any of the films was, I wouldn't say offensive, but it certainly wasn't my cup of tea.

What? Oh, he was talking about Alan Moore, not Roger Moore. Sorry.
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Re: Batgirl III's Character Thread (Rosa Klebb)

Post by Batgirl III » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:25 pm

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TECHNOBABBLE
Original Transformers Character
Power Level 10 ( 200 PP )

James Tiberius Kirk wrote:There's an old saying: "A ship in the harbor is safe, but that's not what ships are for."
ABILITIES
Strength 10 (Lifting: 12; Alt-Mode: 0)
Stamina 10 (Alt-Mode: 2)
Agility 3
Dexterity 3
Fighting 4
Intellect 7
Awareness 2
Presence 2

SKILLS
Close Combat [Unarmed] 4 (+8), Deception 3 (+5/+25), Expertise [Human Pop Culture] 5 (+12), Expertise [Science] 8 (+15), Insight 3 (+5), Intimidation 1 (+7/-1), Investigation 5 (+12), Perception 8 (+10), Technology 8 (+15), Ranged Combat [Phasers] 5 (+8), Stealth 2 (-3/+13)

ADVANTAGES
Accurate Attack, Eidetic Memory, Improvised Tools, Inventor, Jack-of-All-Trades, Lionhearted, Well-Informed

POWERS
Robot Mode [ 84 PP Total ]
Giant Robot Growth 8 (+8 Strength, +8 Stamina; +8 Mass, +2 Size, +1 Speed; +4 Intimidation, -8 Stealth, -4 Defenses; E: Innate [1], Permanent) [ 17 PP ]
Hardened Armor Impervious Toughness 10 [ 10 PP ]
Living Machine Immunity 10 (Life-Support) [ 10 PP ]
Phasers Damage 12 (E: Ranged, Split [1]) [ 25 PP ]
Power Lifting Enhanced Ability 2 (+2 Strength; F: Limited to Lifting) [ 2 PP ]
Sensor Suite Senses 20 (Detect Lifesigns: Accute [1], Detect Life [Ranged; 2], Microscopic [Cellular; 2]; Visual: Analytical [All Visual; 2], Darkvision [2], Detect [Mircowaves & Radiation; 2], Distance Sense [1]; Radar: Accurate [All Radio; 4], Danger Sense [1], Detect Motion [1], Direction Sense [1], Radio [1]) [ 20 PP ]

Toy Starship Alt Mode [ 8 PP Total ]
Robot in Disguise Morph 1 (+20 bonus to Deception, Single Form) [ 5 PP ]
AE of Giant Robot: Shrink to Scale Shrinking 8 (-2 Strength, -1 Speed, -2 Size; +4 Defenses; +8 Stealth, -4 Intimidation; E: Innate, Permanent) [ 1 PP ]
AE of Hardened Armor: Impulse Engines Flight 5 (60 MPH) [ 1 PP ]
AE of Power Lifting: Tractor Beam Move Object 1 (100 lbs) [ 1 PP ]

DEFENSE (ROBOT / TOY)
Dodge (10 / 18) Base 11
Parry: (10 / 18) Base 10
Fortitude: (10 / 2) Base 0
Toughness: (10 / 2) ——
Will: ( 6 / 6) Base 4

WORKSHEET (ROBOT FORM)
Attack: 8 Effect: 10 Total: 18 (Unarmed)
Attack: 8 Effect: 12 Total: 20 (Phasers)
Dodge: 10 Tough: 10 Total: 20
Parry: 10 Tough: 10 Total: 20
Fort: 10 Will: 6 Total: 16


WORKSHEET (TOY FORM)
Attack: 8 Effect: 0 Total: 8 (Unarmed)
Attack: 8 Effect: 12 Total: 20 (Phasers)
Dodge: 18 Tough: 2 Total: 20
Parry: 18 Tough: 2 Total: 20
Fort: 2 Will: 6 Total: 8


ABILITIES [ 50 pp ] +
SKILLS [ 26 pp ] +
ADVANTAGES [ 7 pp ] +
POWERS [ 92 pp ] +
DEFENSES [ 25 pp ] =
200 PP TOTAL

COMPLICATIONS
Quirk: Technobabble's advanced sensor systems seem to have absorbed too many terraflops of human broadcast signals when he was unconscious abord the Ark. This seems to have fried some of his memory engrams and left him occassionally unaware of what reality he's in. He's still a good scientist and compotent warrior against the evil Decepticons... He just sometimes seems to think they are Klingons or Romulans.
Duty ("Optimus Prime Directive"): Freedom is the right of all sentient beings, outsiders must not interfer with the development of primative civiliations.
Responsibility: Technobabble feels a strong sense of responsibility to use his scientific skills for the benefit of all.


Real Name: Technobabble
Occupation: Autobot Scientist
Education: Nonapplicable
Date of Birth: Nonapplicable
Base of Operations: Mobile
Height: 34'02" Tall (10.4 m) Robot Mode 12" Length (0.30 m) Toy Mode
Weight: 50,000 lbs. (22,680 kg)
Eyes: Blue
Race: Cybertronian (Autobot)
Identity: Secret
Religion: Nonapplicable
Relationships: Nonapplicable
Legal Status: Autobot

Background:
Technobabble is an Autobot Scientist, who assumed the form of a Earth child's toy. He sometimes forgets he's an Autobot locked in the centuries long war with the evil Decepticons, thinking himself a Starfleet Science Officer on a mission to protect the Federation from Klingons or Romulans... Most of his fellow Autobots have learned to indulge this quirk as it's fairly harmless and doesn't seem to interfere with his duties. Much.

Technobabble has some of the most advanced sensors found on any Autobot, second only to those of his freindly rival Cosmos. He uses his advanced sensory suite, scientific accumen, and technical skill to keep his fellow Autobots on the cutting edge of scientific advancment. Never letting the Decepticons have an edge.

In combat, Technobabble prefers to zip around the battlefield in his toy starship form. His phaser banks (he refuses to call them plasma cannons) lose none of their potency in his smaller size and he becomes devilishly hard for the large Decepticons to hit... Unfortunately, when the do get lucky and land a hit, well, anti-tank cannons and air-to-surface missiles can really do a number on a toy spaceship.

Build Notes:
Gamebook's recent run of 24,601 different Transformers OC's has inspired me to try my hand at building one of my own. So when I found the picture of a Transformer that turned into the U.S.S. Enterprise I just had to make it happen. Of course, having him transform into a full-size U.S.S. Enterprise would have been way to much... But turning into a scale model toy? Perfect!
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