Jab’s Builds! (Bristol-D! Flag-Smasher! The Fatboys! Fin Fang Foom!)

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Jabroniville
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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Punisher! Jigsaw! Punisher Foes! Microchip!)

Post by Jabroniville » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:13 pm

Finally watched all of the Kim Possible TV Movie. It's, um... okay, it started out REALLY well. Ron the accident-prone doofus, Kim is all confident & collected, and Drakken & Shego had their relationship handled perfectly. I mean, all four of the main actors just NAILED IT to the point of basically doing imitations of the TV characters. Even the school & Bueno Nacho were identical sets! I was seriously like "Wow, that awful trailer really hid how AWESOME this was going to be!"

But then... things just go off the rails in the second act, with a lot of artificial drama. Kim makes a new friend, new friend is better than her, and Kim just FALLS APART and loses all her confidence? Okay, a solid "Master Plan" sort of thing from Drakken, but they hang a third of the movie on that! It's KIM POSSIBLE!!! Being an uber-confident superhero is her entire thing! They spent ONE ACT with that being her personality! I mean, there's something to be said for a "vulnerable hero"... but that's RON's job! Kim is the Mary Sue- that's her entire thing! That's the joke!

And then... all this other weird stuff. Kim sucking at school and getting to classes on time? Ron stops mattering after the first act (it's like we're supposed to have just assumed their longtime partnership was established already)? For some reason Kim's mom & Nana are involved in the last mission? It's just a MESS of a story. If you're gonna do a Kim Possible movie, it should be Kim, Ron, Drakken & Shego- not a cast of dozens. ESPECIALLY not so heavily featuring a new girl. It came off as the Test Pilot for a new TV series or bunch of films.

Alyson Hannigan basically played herself/her same old role again, despite this being MRS. POSSIBLE. At least she looks like the mom of a teenager now- I swear that woman took 20 years to ago properly. But she really came off more as a dorky mom than a confident brain surgeon or a martial artist.

It was partially written by KP's creators, but notably missed the show's best writers. That might be part of it. The artificial drama and the need to justify all the actors just made it a mess.

The ratings were apparently the worst Disney TV Movie release in the past ten years, which probably doesn't bode well. I was hoping they'd take this opportunity to put the show back on the air or release a full series on DVD, but I don't see that happening yet. Terribly annoying.

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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Punisher! Jigsaw! Punisher Foes! Microchip!)

Post by Woodclaw » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:32 pm

Since I started reading Punisher during the Battlewagon era, I usually consider Microchip kind of essential to the character identity.
Aside from being a forerunner of the whole concept of every major hero having some kind of support team behind, it also provided the necessary foil to Frank and also gave a potential answer to a number of questions surrounding the Punisher (e.g. where the hell did Frank get the money to fuel his war?).
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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Punisher! Jigsaw! Punisher Foes! Microchip!)

Post by Jabroniville » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:02 pm

Woodclaw wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:32 pm
Since I started reading Punisher during the Battlewagon era, I usually consider Microchip kind of essential to the character identity.
Aside from being a forerunner of the whole concept of every major hero having some kind of support team behind, it also provided the necessary foil to Frank and also gave a potential answer to a number of questions surrounding the Punisher (e.g. where the hell did Frank get the money to fuel his war?).
Yeah, it was very weird for me to read that he'd been dead for so long, and died hating Frank. Primarily because like I said, to me it was "The Punisher and Microchip"- the duo that did all of this stuff. He and the Battle Wagon were so iconic to Frank that every comic WITHOUT them felt weird to me- like a diminished hero going about his stuff. Even though Micro especially doesn't really fit into the modern, even more intense Frank.

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Carlos Cruz

Post by Jabroniville » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:32 pm

Image

CARLOS CRUZ (False Punisher)
Created By:
Chuck Dixon & Rod Wigham
First Appearance: Punisher #97 (Dec. 1994)
Status: Executed by Stone Cold
Role: Would-Be Replacement
PL 7 (96)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 9 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Athletics 4 (+6)
Deception 3 (+6)
Expertise (Criminal/Military) 6 (+8)
Insight 2 (+4)
Intimidation 3 (+6)
Investigation 2 (+4)
Perception 4 (+6)
Stealth 1 (+5)
Vehicles 1 (+6)

Advantages:
Equipment 5 (Arsenal), Ranged Attack 5

Equipment:
"Guns" Blast 4 (8)
"Knife" Strength-Damage +1 (Feats: Improved Critical) (2)
"Automatic Weapons" Blast 6 (Extras: Multiattack) (Inaccurate -1) (11)
"Grenades" Blast 6 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Diminished Range -1) (17)

Offense:
Unarmed +9 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Guns +10 (+4 Ranged Damage, DC 19)
Automatic Weapons +8 (+6 Ranged Damage, DC 21)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +4, Fortitude +5, Will +5

Complications:
Enemy (The Punisher)

Total: Abilities: 62 / Skills: 26--13 / Advantages: 10 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 11 (96)

-Carlos Cruz seemed like a big deal from some past research, but now I can see that he only appeared in one story arc and was gone. Created by Chuck Dixon, he was a former Navy SEAL who was one of numerous men to attempt to replace a missing Frank Castle as the new Punisher. Downsized from a military that was cutting back, he struggled to find a job and tried to protect his neighborhood. He saved a man from a vicious gang-beating, and that man turned out to be Microchip, who thought Frank had gone over the edge, and wanted to replace him. Carlos was initially horrified, and turned Microchip down, but that night, his young nephew Randy was killed as a bystander in a drive-by shooting. Now seeing vengeance, he accepted the offer, and began training.

-Microchip soon led him to slaughter the gangsters responsible for Randy's death, and then Carlos began hunting down other crooks. His next mission IMMEDIATELY went sideways, however, as he and the vigilante Phalanx (one of the "1993 Annual Card" characters) were confronted by their target's bodyguard... Bullseye. Bullseye killed Phalanx, but both he and Carlos ran out of bullets at the same time- he laughed, taunting Carlos as he walked away ("you're not Punisher!"). Carlos returned to Microchip, finding him dead- thinking that Castle killed his old friend (he was, in fact, killed by Stone Cold), Carlos hunted down Castle, and engaged in a knock-down, drag-out fight. However, while trying to recover, Carlos himself was also executed by Stone Cold, yet another victim of the Punisher Grand Finale.

-Carlos is the most capable of the "Replacement Punishers", but never really moved past "Desperately trying not to die against any named threat"- only Mooks really had much to fear from him.

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Stone Cold

Post by Jabroniville » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:21 am

Image

STONE COLD (Derek Smalls)
Created By:
Chuck Dixon & Melvin Rubi
First Appearance: Punisher War Journal #76 (March 1995)
Status: Killed by a surprise attack from Shotgun
Role: Hunter of Vigilantes
PL 8 (102)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Athletics 4 (+6)
Deception 3 (+6)
Expertise (S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent) 6 (+8)
Insight 2 (+5)
Intimidation 4 (+7)
Investigation 5 (+8)
Perception 4 (+7)
Stealth 3 (+7)
Vehicles 1 (+6)

Advantages:
Equipment 5 (Arsenal), Ranged Attack 7

Equipment:
"Guns" Blast 4 (8)
"Knife" Strength-Damage +1 (Feats: Improved Critical) (2)
"Automatic Weapons" Blast 6 (Extras: Multiattack) (Inaccurate -1) (11)
"Grenades" Blast 6 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Diminished Range -1) (17)

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Guns +12 (+4 Ranged Damage, DC 19)
Automatic Weapons +10 (+6 Ranged Damage, DC 21)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +11 (DC 21), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +4, Fortitude +5, Will +5

Complications:
Enemy (The Punisher)

Total: Abilities: 62 / Skills: 32--16 / Advantages: 12 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 12 (102)

-A guy with a name as awesome as "Stone Cold" should really have had a good run, but nope- this guy's only appeared in a handful of comics. He's a S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent who went on a murderous rampage for some reason, investigating a government agency working with vigilantes and just killing them and various criminals attached to the group. Marvunapp reveals something REALLY odd- Chuck Dixon writing ALL THREE Punisher books during this mid-1995 story arc, which basically features Smalls moving up the food chain to his real target- Frank Castle. And then he fires a missile into Frank's base of operations, KILLING MICROCHIP, which was a big deal (Micro had been Castle's partner for QUITE some time- I remember reading about him much earlier during my childhood). Smalls then found and executed Carlos Cruz, exhausted after a fight against Castle of his own!

-And then, in a final appearance... he comes across the Punisher battling Bullseye on Coney Island, then readies his aim... and gets shot and killed by Shotgun, who'd been sent by Nick Fury to execute Stone Cold and retrieve Castle.

-This is INSANELY WEIRD. Chuck Dixon writes a story that runs from March till July, featuring some random guy executing major Punisher characters (including a longtime sidekick), then he gets shot and killed by an UNRELATED CHARACTER? WTF is all this? Some further research reveals that this was actually the END of all three Punisher books, and so it seems that Dixon was more or less capping off everything by wiping out a couple of characters and then icing the villain on the way out. Still, very strange.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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catsi563
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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Punisher! Jigsaw! Punisher Foes! Microchip!)

Post by catsi563 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:46 am

Oh Jab just for you Brie Larson in an interview she did wile playing with puppies listed Sailor Moon as one of her role models. =^_^=
Dr. Silverback has wryly observed that this is like trying to teach lolcats about Shakespeare

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Thorn

Post by Jabroniville » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:09 am

Image
Image

THORN (Salvatore "Sal" Carbone)
Created By:
Steven Grant & Hugh Haynes
First Appearance: Punisher War Zone #1 (March 1992)
Status: Still Alive & at Large
Role: One-Off Foe
PL 7 (104)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Athletics 4 (+6)
Deception 3 (+6)
Expertise (Criminal) 6 (+8)
Insight 2 (+5)
Intimidation 3 (+6)
Investigation 2 (+4)
Perception 4 (+7)
Stealth 1 (+5)
Vehicles 1 (+6)

Advantages:
Equipment 5 (Arsenal), Ranged Attack 5

Powers:
Immunity 5 (Cold, Poison, Disease, Suffocation 2) [5]
Regeneration 4 [4]

Equipment:
"Guns" Blast 4 (8)
"Knife" Strength-Damage +1 (Feats: Improved Critical) (2)
"Automatic Weapons" Blast 6 (Extras: Multiattack) (Inaccurate -1) (11)
"Grenades" Blast 6 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Diminished Range -1) (17)

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Guns +10 (+4 Ranged Damage, DC 19)
Automatic Weapons +8 (+6 Ranged Damage, DC 21)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +4, Fortitude +5, Will +5

Complications:
Enemy (The Punisher)

Total: Abilities: 62 / Skills: 26--13 / Advantages: 10 / Powers: 9 / Defenses: 10 (104)

-Sal Carbone was a mobster framed by his subordinates (one of whom was Frank Castle in disguise) for being disloyal, and was planned to be executed- a heavy drug-user, he proved capable of taking the drugs they fed him without dying, and he fought back on his attackers. Eventually, they left him for dead in a frozen river, from which he arose the next day, slowly recovering. He went all "Kill Bill" on his betrayers, and killed one of them before being shot by the other- now revealed as the Punisher. Thorn reappeared in a later Annual, finishing off the rest of his killers before stalking off into the night after Punisher dumped him off a bridge.

-Thorn is basically the Template, but a bit wiser and with regenerative capabilities. It's never explained just WHY he has super-powers, but it's likely a combination of the drugs in his system and the cold water did something.

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KorokoMystia
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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Punisher! Jigsaw! Punisher Foes! Microchip!)

Post by KorokoMystia » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:30 am

..Really? THAT GUY got a "Famous Battles" card?

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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Punisher! Jigsaw! Punisher Foes! Microchip!)

Post by FuzzyBoots » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:39 am

So... basically Thorn is Rasputin?

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Ares
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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Punisher! Jigsaw! Punisher Foes! Microchip!)

Post by Ares » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:48 am

Yeah, it's weird for me to think of a Punisher without Microchip, since he seemed pretty important to the mythos from when I was reading Frank. I guess the problem was that Micro humanized Frank too much, gave him someone to talk to, gave him his gear, etc. Garth Ennis and folks like him want Frank to basically narrate to himself all of the time and indulge in the worst human behavior.

Sidenote, but it sort of ties into the Punisher: I was reading the "Round Robin" Spider-Man storyarc where Spidey and a variety of heroes teamed up to take on the Secret Empire and the cyberized version of Moon Knight's old partner, Midnight. From the Round Robin story, I'd assumed that it was a retcon where Midnight had died originally and the writer just wanted to have a fun adventure.

I checked the issues referenced in Moon Knight's book where Midnight got critically injured before becoming a cyborg, and WOW, Midnight really was an annoying little snot even before he was a killer cyborg. Like, he makes the "I want to kill this character" Jim Starlin version of Jason Todd look like . . . well, every other version of Jason Todd BEFORE Starlin got his hands on him. But anyway, Midnight gets mortally injured, presumed dead, but the Moon Knight book actually shows Midnight recovered, and has his cyber-augmentation begin, with much of his body being replaced and even gets his iconic black outfit, as well as the device that let the Secret Empire elite control him via pain.

It turns out that there was a writer switch on Moon Knight's book, and while the Moon Knight writer was setting Midnight up as an enemy, the next writers completely forgot about the character. So it looks like the Spider-Man team decided to just continue the storyline themselves rather than leave it up in the air. And near as I can tell, the writer for Spider-Man was NOT the writer of Moon Knight that started the thing with Midnight, he just saw the story was being abandoned and decided to have fun with it.

In any case, it's sort of relevant to these builds since Punisher was involved in both the story where Midnight becomes a cyborg and the follow up where Midnight apparently dies.

Jabroniville
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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Punisher! Jigsaw! Punisher Foes! Microchip!)

Post by Jabroniville » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:43 am

Hah- I was legitimately expecting the “guess who was writing?” Twist until you added the last bit. That’s incredibly common in comics- as much as “Villain Transference” (aka why Mystique is never associated with Carol Danvers anymore”.

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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Punisher! Jigsaw! Punisher Foes! Microchip!)

Post by Jabroniville » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:45 am

KorokoMystia wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:30 am
..Really? THAT GUY got a "Famous Battles" card?
Yeah, he was a contemporary figure, so I guess they felt it merited. Kind of like how Saracen was in Series II. And again I’m confused as to how both guys eluded my previous “Marvel Cards”-themed set.

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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Punisher! Jigsaw! Punisher Foes! Microchip!)

Post by Ares » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:49 am

Funny enough, the writer DOES admit to using the Seekers in that Round Robin storyline specifically because he wrote the Iron Man and Fantastic Four issues that starred them, so there WAS a bit of "creators pet/character transfer" going, just not from any of the main characters. Which was fine, the Seekers worked as good mooks to give the heroes someone else besides Midnight and generic Secret Empire goons to fight.

But yeah, it's incredibly common to see writes bring their lesser known creations around with them. Roger Stern goes from Superman to Starman, he brings the STAR Labs doctor who becomes Rampage with him. And lets not even talk about Starlin, Englehart and David with their pet heroes.

Jabroniville
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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Punisher! Jigsaw! Punisher Foes! Microchip!)

Post by Jabroniville » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:06 am

Here's the bio for Shotgun, posted not too long after we started Echoes: Shotgun II (DD Foe)

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Pyre

Post by Jabroniville » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:05 pm

Image
Image

PYRE (Gray Russell)
Created By:
Carl Potts, Aaron Lyle & Al Milgrom
First Appearance: Venom- Funeral Pyre #1 (Aug. 1993)
Status: Survived a Warehouse Fire; Disappeared
Role: One-Off Foe
PL 7 (67)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Athletics 3 (+5)
Deception 4 (+5)
Expertise (Criminal) 3 (+3)
Insight 3 (+5)
Investigation 2 (+4)
Perception 2 (+4)
Ranged Combat (Blasts) 3 (+6)
Stealth 1 (+4)
Vehicles 1 (+3)

Advantages:
Ranged Attack 1

Powers:
Microwave Blast 7 [14]

Offense:
Unarmed +5 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Microwaves +6 (+7 Ranged Damage, DC 22)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +6 (DC 16), Parry +5 (DC 15), Toughness +3, Fortitude +4, Will +3

Complications:
Enemy (The Punisher)

Total: Abilities: 36 / Skills: 22--11 / Advantages: 1 / Powers: 14 / Defenses: 5 (67)

-God, how many Venom one-shots WERE THERE in the early 1990s? I swear, before they finally bit the bullet and gave him his own solo book, Venom starred in like two or three of these per year. It was INSANE. I've never even heard of this Funeral Pyre one. Pyre was a normal gang member who was being made to kill someone that night or else be killed himself. He jumped into a HYDRA "Super-Soldier Pod" when the Punisher attacked his group, and got energized into a superhuman- he attacked both Punisher and the gang leader, killing him with a blast through the chest. At this point, Venom arrived, and "Pyre" attacked him, enraged over Venom's lateness forcing him to turn to murder. The Punisher couldn't use his weapons because the Microwaves kept heating them up (um, okay), and Venom couldn't get close because of his own weakness to heat, but ultimately Pyre was thought-killed in a fire in the warehouse. Both vigilantes then left the premises... while coughing was heard in the background. The only other mention Pyre got was in the "Everyone Ever Gets Mentioned" Civil War: Battle Report as a "potential recruit for The Initiative".

-Pyre is basically an unskilled rookie, would-be reporter who gets some super-powers.

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