Jab’s Builds! (Whomp 'Em! Plumbers Don't Wear Ties! ToeJam & Earl!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
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HalloweenJack
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Raven! Danny Chase! Red Star! Changeling! Cyborg!)

Post by HalloweenJack »

Ares wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:25 am


In the same vein, Nightwing is never treated with any sympathy by anyone else, nor does anyone treat Mirage like a monster for impersonating Starfire and raping Dick. They basically laugh it off like it was no big thing, and Starfire is basically as mad at Dick as she is with Mirage.

A similar thing happened in a Devin Grayson-penned Nightwing story, where a traumatized Nightwing is begging Tarantula to stop while she forces herself onto him. Devin later said that it wasn't consensual, but she didn't consider it rape . . . which just boggles my mind.

Long story short kids, unless you've got the skill to give it the gravitas it deserves, rape is probably something most writers shouldn't touch. Death and murder are far more permanent crimes, but rape leaves a traumatized, living victim that has to cope with the horrible thing done to them, making it a much more complex issue.

that sure does happen alot to Dick.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Raven! Danny Chase! Red Star! Changeling! Cyborg!)

Post by HalloweenJack »

Ares wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:04 am
Spam wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:53 am
Ares wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:25 am It kind of baffles me how insensitive in general a lot of comic writers are to the topic of rape. The Avengers writer decides to write Carol Danvers out of the story, so they have her become magically pregnant out of nowhere, go from normal to full term in less than a day, give birth to a child who rapidly ages into an adult, and then reveal that the child is actually Marcus, a guy from Limbo. Who brought Carol to Limbo, is SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED TO USE TECHNOLOGY TO ALTER HER MIND TO MAKE HER FALL IN LOVE WITH HIM, has sex with aka rapes her, then sends her back to Earth so he can use this convoluted method of becoming his own dad to escape Limbo.

And the Avengers were COOL with this! It's like, did none of the writers and editors stop to think how messed up that was?

Identity Crisis likewise turned standard super-genius supervillain Dr. Light into this weird, leering rapist solely for drama and as a red herring. Sue Dibney was just a chew toy for that story.

But then you get other things, like Thor, Captain Britain and Northstar all being mind controlled by women into having sex with them, and at no time is that treated as rape. It's especially bad with Northstar, who is GAY and has no attraction for women.

In the same vein, Nightwing is never treated with any sympathy by anyone else, nor does anyone treat Mirage like a monster for impersonating Starfire and raping Dick. They basically laugh it off like it was no big thing, and Starfire is basically as mad at Dick as she is with Mirage.

A similar thing happened in a Devin Grayson-penned Nightwing story, where a traumatized Nightwing is begging Tarantula to stop while she forces herself onto him. Devin later said that it wasn't consensual, but she didn't consider it rape . . . which just boggles my mind.

Long story short kids, unless you've got the skill to give it the gravitas it deserves, rape is probably something most writers shouldn't touch. Death and murder are far more permanent crimes, but rape leaves a traumatized, living victim that has to cope with the horrible thing done to them, making it a much more complex issue.
Can't recall the specifics, but didnt Hawkeye end up breaking up with his wife, Mockingbird, because she failed to save the life of the villian who raped her? A villian whose power was coming back from the dead?
It's kind of complicated.

At the time, the Avengers went through a time travel adventure, one part which took them into the Wild West. While there, the Phantom Rider fell in love with Mockingbird, and kidnapped her right when the time machine was about to take the heroes away. The Avengers couldn't return immediately, and the Phantom Rider used a potion to erase Bobbi (Mockingbird)'s identity and make her fall in love with him. And while under that influence, they had sex. Which is to say, he raped her.

The comic never calls it rape outright, but when Mockingbird regains her memory, she's clearly mad as hell. She confronts the Phantom Rider and flat out states that he "violated her in the way only scum like him can violate a woman". So they fight, and during the fight, the Phantom Rider falls off the side of a cliff. He's clinging to the edge and begs Mockingbird to save him. Instead, she just tells him to "go to Hell", and watches as he loses his grip and falls to his death.

Eventually, the heroes are able to come back for her. She decides not to tell Clint about this, and we get a semi-realistic depiction of a rape survivor dealing with her trauma. Only when they return to the present, the Phantom Rider's ghost appears and begins to haunt Mockingbird. See, the Phantom Rider wasn't originally a ghost or a phantom. He was just a guy who used stage magic to appear to be a ghost. So when Mockingbird let him die, he really did die, only to come back as a vengeful ghost. But due to some rules of the supernatural he couldn't start haunting her until after she'd returned and killed him.

So Mockingbird, already dealing with the guilt of killing someone and lying to her husband, the trauma of being raped, and the torture of being messed with by a ghost, decides to confide in some of her Avengers. And despite the Avengers having a very strict "No Kill Rule" to maintain their government sanction, every Avenger present is supportive of her and tells her that Clint will likewise be understanding.

The Phantom Rider sees this happen, and instead appears to Hawkeye and the other Avengers, informing them of what happened. So when Hawkeye and the other Avengers show up, Clint is PISSED because Mockingbird has not only been lying to him, she lied about killing someone. This would be bad enough as an Avengers leader, but he's also her husband, so he feels doubly betrayed. And because Clint and Bobbi have similar temperaments, him being mad at her makes her equally defensive right back. So both of them dig in their heels and get into a yelling match, and both of them are too stubborn to back down.

So the pair separate, but they never actually get divorced, I believe. Englehart claims that he was suppose to get them back together not long after, but he left the book and John Byrne dragged out the drama even longer. Eventually Clint and Bobbi realized they were both being idiots, Clint especially so, and the two made up. Just in time for Bobbi to get killed fighting demons.

But wait, there's more!

See, it turns out that somewhere between Bobbi taking a leave of absence from the Avengers and getting killed, she was replaced with a Skrull. So when she comes back to Earth, her memories are still of Clint who refused to take her side as if it happened last week. And despite Clint trying to explain that he realizes he was wrong, Bobbi files for divorce, leaving them both single.

But wait, IT. GETS. EVEN. DUMBER!

Chelsea Cain got to write her own Mockingbird series. It was terrible, with Cain basically completely creating a new character from scratch and being one of the forerunners for the issues Marvel has had in recent years. She was the one with the infamous "Ask me about my feminist agenda" shirt, right as the book was canceled. She also recently had her Vision mini-series canceled by Marvel because, shockingly, it took her over two years to produce four issues worth of content for the series, and it wasn't in line with what Marvel wanted. When Marvel asked her to respect their decision and not make a fuss about it, she immediately went to Twitter and blasted:
"Marvel asked me to keep this 'clean and quiet', because apparently they've never met me. HI GUYS! I'M THE ONE WHO'S THE PAIN IN THE ASS. REMEMBER ME NOW?"
Truly, the soul of professionalism.

In any case, Chelsea Cain decided to revisit the the Mockingbird / Phantom Rider incident. Cain felt that Mockingbird being raped "took away her agency", despite the fact that she got revenge on her abuser and stood by her decision even in the face of what it might cost her, and realistic dealt with the repercussions of such an event.

Instead, Cain decided that Mockingbird had WILLINGLY stayed with the Phantom Rider, and WILLING slept with him. She cheated on her husband because "Clint could never control me", but when she decided she wanted to return home, the Phantom Rider wanted her to stay. They had a fight, and she killed him. So again, instead of avenging herself on her rapist, she killed a guy who at best was somewhat possessive of her, and at worst felt like she had betrayed him and used him, but wanted her to stay so they could work things out.

In the present, Bobbi shows no remorse over killing the Phantom Rider, because "He's a ghost, how could I have killed him", ignoring that the only way for him to have become a ghost was because she killed him. And Clint? Apparently Clint invented the idea of her being raped because that was easier to handle than the idea of her cheating on him, and he divorced her.

And CLINT is the one portrayed as being in the wrong here, refusing to accept Bobbi's decisions, when this whole story turns Bobbi into a monster who cheated on her husband and then murdered her lover because he felt justly pissed that she'd just leave him when she was done with him.

This might surprise you based on that wall of text, but I'm not a fan of the retcon.


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Re: Jab’s Builds (Raven! Danny Chase! Red Star! Changeling! Cyborg!)

Post by catsi563 »

yeah that Mockingbird rewrite was one of biggest crapfests and worst bits of character assassination ive ever seen in a character and made worse because it came from a female writer who should have known better. As a long time fan of Hawkeye and Mockingbird I loved how they played off each other all the way back to their mini series where they first met.

But this was just plain a bridge too far and was rejected out of hand by myself and a lot of the fandom.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Raven! Danny Chase! Red Star! Changeling! Cyborg!)

Post by Ken »

Ares wrote: Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:25 amBut then you get other things, like Thor, Captain Britain and Northstar all being mind controlled by women into having sex with them, and at no time is that treated as rape. It's especially bad with Northstar, who is GAY and has no attraction for women.

In the same vein, Nightwing is never treated with any sympathy by anyone else, nor does anyone treat Mirage like a monster for impersonating Starfire and raping Dick. They basically laugh it off like it was no big thing, and Starfire is basically as mad at Dick as she is with Mirage.

A similar thing happened in a Devin Grayson-penned Nightwing story, where a traumatized Nightwing is begging Tarantula to stop while she forces herself onto him. Devin later said that it wasn't consensual, but she didn't consider it rape . . . which just boggles my mind.
It doesn't boggle my mind. Devin Grayson is horribly horribly wrong. But it doesn't boggle my mind. There is one basic idea that a lot of people seem to have: rapists can only be men with a possible exception if the perpetrator, like the victim, is a woman. It's part of the Women Are Always Victims mentality. This is, but it doesn't change the fact that a lot of people think it.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Raven! Danny Chase! Red Star! Changeling! Cyborg!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Lol- poor Grant Emerson. Nobody cares about him, and are instead going on about the Marvel Family in the MU and whether or not they’d fit. Good think I don’t care about Damage :).

I think the “differences between universes” Thing is interesting enough to table here and makes its own thread. That way we can go on without interrupting it with builds.
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Joker’s Daughter

Post by Jabroniville »

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JOKER'S DAUGHTER (Duela Dent, aka Penguin's Daughter, Wildebeest's Daughter, Scarecrone, Catgirl, Riddler's Daughter, Doomsday's Daughter, Card Queen, Harlequin)
Created By:
Bob Rozakis
First Appearance: Batman Family #6 (1976)
Role: Goofy Side Character
Group Affiliations: The Teen Titans
PL 8 (116)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 10 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS -1 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Acrobatics 4 (+8)
Deception 8 (+9)
Expertise (Streetwise) 4 (+5)
Intimidation 5 (+6)
Perception 6 (+5)
Stealth 4 (+8)
Vehicles 3 (+7)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Precise Attack (Close/Concealment), Chokehold, Defensive Roll, Evasion, Fearless, Grappling Finesse, Improved Aim, Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative 2, Luck 2, Power Attack, Ranegd Attack 7, Sneak Attack

Powers:
"Joke-Themed Gadgets" (Flaws: Easily Removable) [13]
Variable 3 (21 points)

Sample Powers:
"Slinky" Snare 5 (Diminished Range -2) (13)
"Chattering Teeth" Blast 3 (Diminished Range -2) (6)
"Staff" Strength-Damage +2 (Feats: Reach, Split) (4)
"Powder Puffs" Concealment (Visuals) 2 (Extras: Area- 15ft. Cloud) (6)
"Bullet-Firing Lipstick" Blast 5 (10)

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Staff +10 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Slinky +11 (+5 Ranged Affliction, DC 15)
Chattering Teeth +11 (+3 Ranged Damage, DC 18)
Bullet Lipstick +11 (+5 Ranged Damage, DC 20)
Initiative +12

Defenses:
Dodge +11 (DC 21), Parry +11 (DC 21), Toughness +3 (+4 D.Roll), Fortitude +5, Will +4

Complications:
Responsibility (Insane)- Duela is QUITE nuts, and spends a great deal of time in mental institutions. She sometimes acts as a hero, and sometimes as a villain- her actions are basically random, and her characterization changes with every appearance. Granted, that's not that unsual for COMICS, but...

Total: Abilities: 48 / Skills: 34--17 / Advantages: 22 / Powers: 13 / Defenses: 16 (116)

Duela Dent- Wacky 1970s Character To Murderous Modern Lunatic:
-Duela Dent is a goofy storyline from the mid-'70s, due only the occasional mention (the Donna Troy wedding and the Technis Imperative "all the Titans get together" events) until recent times, where she showed up on the Titans East team and got a full origin. See, her gimmick was that she claimed to be Joker's Daughter, but was actually the daughter of Harvey Dent (the only married Batman villain), and had figured out Robin's secret identity. But then the writers got sick of her and dumped the concept after a handful of appearances in the Bat-books. She was insane and was probably just making it up anyways. After the Teen Titans books were cancelled, she had a one-off in Batman as the Card Queen, and was then dropped. Her last Pre-Criss appearances was in the wedding of Donna Troy and Terry Long, looking like an older matron that was some kind of horrifying cross between Pink Pearl & The Joker (*shudder*). There, Dick Grayson reveals that he finally realized she was TOO OLD to be Two-Face's daughter. "It took you THAT long to figure it out?" she teases him.

-Post-Crisis, she pops up as the Harlequin (this is well before Harley Quinn debuts in Batman: The Animated Series, I believe), calling herself Duela Dent and using clown-motif gadgets. Delusional and schizophrenic, she allies with the Team (not Teen) Titans. The writers initially planned for her to be a former Team Titan, driven insane by the time-travel experience, but the book was cancelled before they could pull it off. This was later written out as a "time glitch" in Zero Hour, because why not?

Modern Duela:
-Duela inexplicably shows up in JLA/Titans- The Technis Imperative, being roped into things along with all the other Titans allies. A robot sent by Cyborg breaks her out of a mental institution and she helps the Titans fight the JLA- she next shows up in a Secret Files book calling herself Domsday's Daughter. The next Secret Files issue has her crash the party of a new "Titans West". The same book states that all of the leads for potential fathers have failed. Save one.

-She shows up a few other times, including being on the Titans during "One Year Later" and allying with Enigma. And then Geoff Johns reveals her true origins- turns out she's from Earth-3 (the Crime Syndicate world), where she's the actual daughter of Jackie "Jokester" Napier, a superhero, and the schizoid Three-Face (Evelyn Dent... fun fact, I once had a "made up" character as a kid called Three-Face, who had a metal forehead), escaped into the mainline world and turned insane as a result. And then they killed her, just as she was getting fascinating. It's unlikely we'll see her any time soon, either. So sad- she was yet another example of taking a trashed & forgotten character and making something out of her. Why Geoff Johns would give her an AWESOME backstory and then immediately wipe her out is one of those things that will always prevent him from being seen as a truly great writer.

-The New 52 uses the character again, and OF COURSE turns it into a gigantic, disgusting mess, as she's a Joker wannabe who wears his flesh mask while he's thought dead, and starts murdering people. Much to Harley Quinn's chagrin, the character is then recruited for the new Suicide Squad.

Duela's Stats:
-Joker's Daughter is a pretty capable fighter, who nonetheless has a weird power-set, basically being a ton of goofy little things themed around trickery and weirdness (chattering teeth, slinkies that bind and the like), so she gets the Gadgets power at a pretty low rank in addition to all her martial arts fighter stuff.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Raven! Danny Chase! Red Star! Changeling! Cyborg!)

Post by KorokoMystia »

I really think Duela Dent is an interesting character who had a lot of potential. The comic based on the Teen Titans cartoon also had a character using her gimmick of pretending to be the daughters of various supervillains, confounding the Titans and causing Robin to remark that it's probably just Duela screwing with them.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Raven! Danny Chase! Red Star! Changeling! Cyborg!)

Post by Jack of Spades »

HalloweenJack wrote: Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:48 am Risk vs Triathlon. I always wanted to see that...for some reason
When I'm thinking "Triathalon wins easily", you know you're pretty lame.
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Jericho

Post by Jabroniville »

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JERICHO (Joseph Wilson)
Created By:
Marv Wolfman & George Perez
First Appearance: Tales of the Teen Titans #43 (June 1984)
Role: Body-Possessor, Sensitive Artistic Type
Group Affiliations: The Teen Titans
PL 12 (172)
STRENGTH
3 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 5
FIGHTING 12 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Acrobatics 6 (+11)
Athletics 5 (+8)
Expertise (Art) 8 (+10)
Expertise (Music) 5 (+7)
Expertise (Dance) 5 (+7)
Insight 7 (+10)
Investigation 3 (+6)
Perception 6 (+9)
Persuasion 4 (+6, +8 Attractive)
Stealth 5 (+10)

Advantages:
Agile Feint, Attractive, Defensive Attack, Elusive Target, Fast Grab, Improved Defense, Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative, Improved Trip, Ranged Attack 4

Powers:
"Possession"
Affliction 12 (Will; Entranced/Compelled/Controlled) (Feats: Subtle) (Extras: Merge With Subject, Perception Range +2, Sustained +2) (Flaws: Instant Recovery, Vision Dependent) (Noticeable- Possessed Subject Can Speak) [48]

Mind Reading 6 (Extras: Effortless) (Flaws: Limited to Possessed Targets, Touch Range -2) [3]
Healing 4 (Flaws: Limited to Possessed Targets, Limited to Awakening Unconscious People For Control) [1]

Offense:
Unarmed +12 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Mind-Reading -- (+6 Mind-Reading, DC 16)
Possession -- (+12 Perception-Ranged Affliction, DC 22)
Initiative +9

Defenses:
Dodge +12 (DC 22), Parry +12 (DC 22), Toughness +4, Fortitude +6, Will +8

Complications:
Disabled (Mute)- Joseph's throat was slashed as a child by an enemy of his father's. He cannot speak, unless he uses his power to Possess someone (and even then, they have to be unconscious). By doing this, he takes on that person's speech patterns (and he never "speaks" via thought balloons or "box monologue"), and so we never truly "hear" the real Joseph Wilson's voice.
Relationship (Slade Wilson- Father)- The Terminator is Joseph's own father. This caused the Titans to initially distrust him, especially after The Judas Contract. Slade loved his son dearly (despite not following after any of Slade's interests), but cost Joey his voice by refusing to give up any information.
Relationship (Adeline Wilson- Mother)- Addie raised Joseph after nearly killing Slade for their son's injury. Mother & son were especially close.
Responsibility (Man-Whore)- Joseph has a LOT of girlfriends. It's heavily implied that he sleeps with tons of girls in his dance troupe.

Total: Abilities: 66 / Skills: 54--27 / Advantages: 13 / Powers: 52 / Defenses: 14 (172)

Jericho- Mutton-Chopped Wonder:
-Jericho was added to the Titans in the Judas Contract storyline, leading to a lot of suspicion (he was another kid of The Terminator's- and this is just after Slade got Terra to spy on the team!) until the team finally accepted him. He was basically George Perez' pet character, a guy who couldn't talk (or use thought balloons under Perez' orders), and so had to use body language and the writer's own word-blocks describing his actions more often than not. His empathic nature won him alot of female fans (though the mutton chops probably helped), and he was a pretty good Teen Titan considering he was added to the already-successful group. His general schtick was that he had these huge doe eyes and a gentle nature, had traditionally "soft" hobbies (music, art and ballet), and thus scored TONS of women- a 2000s-era Wolfman/Perez Titans Elseworlds story has the Titans warning their loved ones about an impending threat to them. Most guys just told their families. The Titans had to call DOZENS of women about the danger to them, via their link to Joseph the Man-Whore.

-He had a lot of interactions with his evil father, helped the empath Raven through some tough times, and generally became a good buddy to the entire team. The character kinda got lost in the early '90s, though, and was killed after being turned to evil by agents of Trigon (the people of Azarath, corrupted by Trigon's demonic essence) and being made to take over the Wildebeest Society. His own father had to deal the final blow to Jericho (who had spoken on his own for the first time ever), as an extra tragic overtone (as his other son, Grant, had died imitating Slade, too). It's probably for the best- his costume was garish for the EIGHTIES, and his big curly blonde mop of hair, big green eyes, purple vesty things, etc. make for a pretty goofy concept, and he'd likely have been turned into an uber-badass '90s design that would probably be even worse.

Jericho the Villain:
-Jericho has popped up in recent years as a crazed villain, having put his essence into Deathstroke's body when the final blow was struck; when he's unleashed, he slaughters his father's best friend, Wintergreen. He was body-hopping when Raven stalled him, and Cyborg used his cybernetic eye to "capture" Jericho's soul and "download" him into a computer program. Raven then used a ritual of resurrection from the Church of Blood to give Jericho a new, non-mute body. Thus purified, Jericho rejoined the Titans alongside his half-sister, Rose "Ravager" Wilson. However, he turned evil AGAIN, having been corrupted after possessing Superboy's evil clone Match. Going mad due to the years of reckless body-hopping, he's now totally crazy, and the Justice League has to stop him from messing with the presidential elections- only the most evil impulses and strong wills of those he'd possessed were able to break free from his dissociative identity disorder. Coming back, he body-hops through various superheroes, but dissolves into nothingness after he can't take hold of Superman's alien body.

-Jericho returns via Cyborg's cybernetic eye, but has his eyes gouged out by the new Vigilante. This cures his insanity, but renders him powerless- he is now haunted by what he's done. His eyes, however, grow back (I guess because of the genetics he inherited from his father), and he turns good again following Blackest Night (in which he has to wipe out the Black Lantern versions of his brother and mother). Later, he is cured of leprosy (WTF?) by super-science, but is disgusted by what Deathstroke had to do (supervillain team-ups and theft) to accomplish it- he and Arsenal prepare to form a new team of Titans just as continuity ends.

-In the "New 52", Jericho appears in Rob Liefeld's infamous Deathstroke series as a villain who hates his father for abandoning the family. But then the third volume of the book erases this version, giving us a heroic one, because holy shit the New 52 was a mess. In the "Rebirth" era, he's mostly heroic, but more angsty due to parental strife and his bisexuality (yeah, so he's bi now), having sent a superhero to his death for threatening to ruin his impending marriage!

Jericho as a Whole:
-Personally, he always seemed kind of Mary Sue-ish to me, being this super handsome, popular and nice guy that everybody loved and accepted, even though he had a disability. Sounds like half the Harry Potter fanfics out there. The powers were interesting (I'll rip them off soon as I get a chance), and he had some good character, but there's trying TOO hard sometimes, y'know? The creators also briefly flirted with the idea of turning him gay, but they decided otherwise since it would have been too much of a cliche to have the artistic, wide-eyed sensitive boy being revealed as gay. Of course, I'm sure most gay fans wouldn't have minded, because he would have basically been the ONLY gay character in comics at the time, much less one in a hugely-successful book. One of the sad things is, Jericho missed out on 90% of the "Nostalgic Titans Stories", being dead or a villain and all, and so many fans don't even link him with the team any longer!

Jericho's Stats:
-Jericho's a weird mish-mash of stuff. Without his Possession power, he's merely a very capable martial artist, given some Advantages for kicking ass. He's PL 7.5/8 just doing that, but his Possession power is pretty big-time stuff. It could reasonably be statted as +15 or even +20 if necessary and still be realistic to the comics, as it was basically "eye contact, the end" and I can never recall someone actually avoiding possession once their eyes met, unless it was some crazy stunt like trying it on Trigon or Trigon-Raven (though in recent years apparently Hal Jordan pulled it off, but that's kind of the upper-tier for "Will", obviously). As it stands, Possession 12 will cover most of it. It's Perception Range, not some kind of weird, Accurate Ranged thing like in "DCA", because he literally just makes eye contact and that's it. And thank God the Power Profiles finally just bit the bullet and made a new Extra for "Merges With Subject", because adding all that Insubstantial/Immunity to Suffocation/Invisibility crap was a pain in the ass- it was a one-point Extra in 2e, and it should be the same in 3e, darn it. That was one of the only big mess-ups they made regarding the new 3e system- forgetting that a decently-common power was sort of needed without a big-ass pile of complicated stuff.

-He's got some different-type stuff going on it, which they don't give in the standard Ultimate Power description- Possessed people can speak (and usually do, dramatically), making it Noticeable (this makes it the only case I can think of where a power is Noticeable AND Subtle, since you can't "see" him take over people, and they can't speak up if unconscious), and he doesn't have to possess only conscious people; he can actually jump into the KO'd minions and then get up and walk around, or speak in their own voice. I could just leave that as a weird flavourful thing, but F it, it's a funny little side thing and I get to stat those up SO RARELY sometimes. Jericho would occasionally also remember stuff that a guy had just thought (using memories to get around a base or something), so he gets a minor, minor Mind Reading power.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Cyborg! Argent! Joker’s Daughter! Jericho!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Made a topic just for the Billy Batson-related debate :): viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1127
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Re: Joker’s Daughter

Post by Ken »

Jabroniville wrote: Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:24 am-Duela Dent is a goofy storyline from the mid-'70s, due only the occasional mention (the Donna Troy wedding and the Technis Imperative "all the Titans get together" events) until recent times, where she showed up on the Titans East team and got a full origin. See, her gimmick was that she claimed to be Joker's Daughter, but was actually the daughter of Harvey Dent (the only married Batman villain), and had figured out Robin's secret identity. But then the writers got sick of her and dumped the concept after a handful of appearances in the Bat-books. She was insane and was probably just making it up anyways. After the Teen Titans books were cancelled, she had a one-off in Batman as the Card Queen, and was then dropped. Her last Pre-Criss appearances was in the wedding of Donna Troy and Terry Long, looking like an older matron that was some kind of horrifying cross between Pink Pearl & The Joker (*shudder*). There, Dick Grayson reveals that he finally realized she was TOO OLD to be Two-Face's daughter. "It took you THAT long to figure it out?" she teases him.
The "writers" never got sick of her. She was only ever written by one writer until Donna's wedding. He wrote the Robin stories in Batman Family, including the ones where Duela appeared as the Joker's Daughter (and Catwoman's, and Riddler's, etc.) Then Rozakis himself brought her over to the Teen Titans for use there. And then when Teen Titans ended with #53, she fell into limbo. But it was Rozakis who wrote the also wrote the multi-part Robin story in Detective Comics 432 and 433 where she was Card Queen. (At this point, it was Detective Comics starring the Batman Family, for reasons.)

Basically, no one at DC but Rozakis gave two deuces about Duela. Especially since Rozakis has admitted he was just using "the selective aging of comics" to let Duela her be Robin's age. She was a Creator's Pet. He went more into the production side of the business, and Duela was history.

At least until she was brought back in the early 2000s.
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Re: Jericho

Post by Ken »

Jabroniville wrote: Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:41 am Responsibility (Man-Whore)- Joseph has a LOT of girlfriends. It's heavily implied that he sleeps with tons of girls in his dance troupe.

He was basically George Perez' pet character, a guy who couldn't talk (or use thought balloons under Perez' orders), and so had to use body language and the writer's own word-blocks describing his actions more often than not. His empathic nature won him alot of female fans (though the mutton chops probably helped), and he was a pretty good Teen Titan considering he was added to the already-successful group. His general schtick was that he had these huge doe eyes and a gentle nature, had traditionally "soft" hobbies (music, art and ballet), and thus scored TONS of women- a 2000s-era Wolfman/Perez Titans Elseworlds story has the Titans warning their loved ones about an impending threat to them. Most guys just told their families. The Titans had to call DOZENS of women about the danger to them, via their link to Joseph the Man-Whore.
He's also an excellent listener who NEVER interrupts.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Cyborg! Argent! Joker’s Daughter! Jericho!)

Post by Ares »

Jericho's outfit isn't bad, per say, but it looks more suited to a fantasy setting than a superhero one, or if he was some kind of spellcaster.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Cyborg! Argent! Joker’s Daughter! Jericho!)

Post by greycrusader »

I'd reduce the Noticeable Flaw on Jericho's power to a Quirk, because he was able to possess unconscious targets and "awaken" them for the purposes of moving and fighting but they were still unaware, which let Joseph speak "through" them. Yes, it was a really wonky power, and always seemed to work without fail, except where the plot demanded otherwise. And yes, Jericho was an UTTER Gary Stu (the male version of the Mary Sue), though this was mollified a bit by the character being an utter glass canon, having the WORST George Perez-designed costume I can remember, and having (obviously) very limited dialogue and presence in the stories.

Yes, I agree Duela had potential-I always liked the Card Queen monicker personally, and killing her off just when she had been given a rather cool origin story WAS a terrible waste of perfectly good character. If she ever did come back, Duela is maybe the ONLY DC character where I think it would actually be cool for a writer to explore all her goofball, conflicting background material-is she insane, a temporal anomaly, a fraud, or all three? But given her role in the DCU is now basically filled by the FAR more popular Harley Quinn, a comeback is very remote.

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Re: Jab’s Builds (Raven! Danny Chase! Red Star! Changeling! Cyborg!)

Post by Ares »

Jabroniville wrote: Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:23 am Lol- poor Grant Emerson. Nobody cares about him, and are instead going on about the Marvel Family in the MU and whether or not they’d fit. Good think I don’t care about Damage :).
I kind of feel bad for Damage, honestly. The kid was give solid links to the Golden Age of superheroes, had a somewhat unique powerset, and rather than being a noble paragon, an edge-lord or a smart-ass, he often came off as kind of insecure, unsure of himself, scared of his own power, and in need of guidance. But despite that, he genuinely wanted to be a hero while also find out more about his past. He seemed like someone who would have been great for a team setting, to give him some character growth, because much was often made of other people about his potential. Arsenal in particular thought the kid had a lot of potential to be a hero.

There was even a Secret Origins issue based around the Sins of Youth crossover, where adult heroes were turned into kids and kid heroes became adults. In it, Damage was aged up into a full adult with complete control over his powers, as well as a given a more paragon-style outfit that I actually like:

Image

According to this story, what was holding Grant back was a lack of maturity and constantly worrying about his powers and trying to control them. With full control and maturity he was more level headed, confident, observant and clever, able to easily pick up on things and come up with good solutions to problems. The idea apparently is that once he gets out of his own head and is no longer constantly angsting over his abilities, he's got the makings of an effective hero.

His powers were also pretty unique if they work how I believe they do. Apparently Damage's body builds up an energy charge, both internally and by absorbing energy directed at him, whether its kinetic, electromagnetic, etc. The more the charge increases, the stronger and more durable he becomes, able to become a pretty decent heavy hitter. He can release some of that energy through his fists to further increase the damage of his punches, as well as release that energy beneath him for a limited form of flight. However, he has a hard time controlling how that power builds up and doesn't know how to just re-absorb it or release it gradually around him. So if he's not careful, the power will build up too much or his control on it will slip and he'll release a massive explosion around him.

It actually creates an interesting dynamic where Damage gets more powerful as a fight goes, but he's got to manage his energy levels or he just goes off. He makes for a decent take on the powerhouse/brick archetype.

The adult Damage from that story could completely control his energy levels, making him a decent powerhouse all the time, able to fly naturally, and able to control his energy releases as ranged energy blasts.

And once again, it's interesting to hear a writer say they didn't just "get" a certain character. Damage only had a handful of appearances by that point, so it should have been easy to either read them and get to know the guy, or he's new enough that you can tweak him to have a more interesting personality. It's like John Byrne complaining about Alpha Flight not having interesting personalities, when as their creator, he could have made them as interesting as he wanted. It's such a non-issue that I'm surprised to hear writers keep using it.
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- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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