Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
Jabroniville
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Red Star

Post by Jabroniville »

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RED STAR (Leonid Kostantinovitch Kovar, aka Starfire I)
Created by:
Len Wein & Marv Wolfman
First Appearance: Teen Titans #18 (1968)
Role: Non-Evil Foreigner
Group Affiliations: The U.S.S.R., The Teen Titans
PL 10 (154)
STRENGTH
9 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 10 DEXTERITY 3
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Deception 4 (+6)
Expertise (Government Agent) 8 (+10)
Insight 4 (+6)
Intimidation 4 (+6)
Investigation 5 (+7)
Perception 5 (+7)
Ranged Combat (Blasts) 2 (+10)
Stealth 4 (+6)
Technology 3 (+5)
Vehicles 3 (+6)

Advantages:
Benefit (Russian Government Agent), Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Hold, Ranged Attack 5

Powers:
"Physical Abilities"
Protection 4 [4]
Speed 4 (30 mph) [4]

"Red Star Energy Form"
Flame Aura 3 [12]
Flame Blast 10 (20) -- [21]
  • Dynamic AE: Flame Aura 5 (20)
Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+9 Damage, DC 24)
Flame Blast +10 (+10 Ranged Damage, DC 25)
Flame Aura +10 (+3-5 Damage, DC 18-20)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +8, Fortitude +6, Will +6

Complications:
Relationship (Pantha & Baby Wildebeest)- The three have formed a kind of strange surrogate family, despite their disparate origins.
Responsibility (Mother Russia)- Red Star is a patriot, and was generally depicted as a proud communist until the fall of the Soviet Bloc.
Rivalry (Wally West)- Kid Flash was the most anti-commie member of the Titans, and argued with Kovar whenever they met- Kovar generally tried to ignore things, but Wally would always press the issue.

Total: Abilities: 72 / Skills: 42--21 / Advantages: 9 / Powers: 41 / Defenses: 12 (155)

-Red Star actually has the honour of being the first DC comics-based Russian superhero (gaining his powers in the most stereotypical way possible- exposure to a meteorite), as he came onto the scene in the late '60s, butting heads with the sidekick-era Titans as the first "Starfire", insulting them with pro-Commie rhetoric and the like. The '80s revealed a more sensitive, noble "Red Star" (as now the TITANS had their own Starfire kicking around), since the Cold War was less-hostile by that point. He usually just ended up arguing with Kid Flash (and Wally was made to look like the big douchebag in most of those cases).

-The only appearance by him where I really cared was a bit in The New Teen Titans that featured him hunting down some Russian woman who'd gained superpowers that were killing her. His mission was to finish her off before she could kill any more innocents, which brought him into conflict with the Titans (Wally in particular, whose "Midwestern values" apparently included being an ass to anyone from Russia)- he came across as kind of heartless until the very end, when he revealed that the woman he'd been sent to stop was actually HIS FIANCE. The Titans kind of felt like a bunch of judgmental dicks after that.

-It wasn't until Wolfman's early-'90s crap run that Red Star actually joined the team (he was being chased down by some Russian agents, and made to look like a traitor to his own people), being on the team for an astonishing TWO YEAR RUN, but he ultimately quit with Pantha & Baby Wildebeest in tow, forming a messed-up family unit. And so they sat in comics limbo until the big Titans events happened, and finally Superboy-Prime eliminated the chaff from Red Star's wheat in Infinite Crisis by massacring several Titans, include Pantha & Baby. A furious Red Star insists "you will BURN for that", but he's unrelated to the eventually defeat of Prime. This frees up a semi-decent character, but he ultimately goes nowhere, joining the Titans during their "One Year Later" interim and going on to become a Russian National Hero again. He didn't really get any major revenge on Superboy-Prime though (since he's still a D-level DC hero, like him or not), and pretty much got no other play, other that fighting Tim Drake for some dumb reason.

-Red Star is part super-soldier, part Blaster. He's fast, strong and tough, and can turn into energy and blast away at people. I eventually just said "screw it" and turned his Flame Aura into a Dynamic AP of Blast, since that kinda makes sense, and makes him a lot cheaper. He's an all-around decent hero, which suits a guy who is essentially his entire country's only line of defense, since DC never bothered with a cool Russia-themed roster of characters like Marvel did.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Flash! Arsenal! Kole! Raven! Danny Chase!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Ares wrote: Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:34 am Danny Chase has a good chance of being one of the single biggest cases of creative tone deafness in comics, right up there with One More Day, Countdown, the New 52, Secret Empire, etc. It takes a special kind of willful obtuseness and denial to not understand why creating someone that annoying would be a turn off, and to blame the fans for not liking what you did.

It didn't help that Danny was going around in plainclothes, since I believe he felt costumes were stupid. He'd fit right in with the Runaways.
It’s the weirdest damn thing. Writers falling in love with their characters, and taking them from place to place, continuously using them... that’s nothing new. Englehart and Mantis, Claremont And Sage, etc. But usually it’s a GIRL character, because the writer has a crush on his own creation. Morrison and Damian Wayne is an exception. And none of those characters had a backlash like THIS.

It’s part of why I found Nadia Pym’s ranting at Spider-Man in Waid’s Avengers so weird. It reminded me WAY too much of Chase riffing on Changeling, and from a writer who should know better.
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Ken
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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Flash! Arsenal! Kole! Raven! Danny Chase!)

Post by Ken »

I didn't hate Danny straight out of the gate. Then again, I didn't hate cousin Oliver at first either. But, in time... In all fairness, I thought Danny's "Phantasm" bit, sometimes being inside the cloak and mask, other times telekinetically controlling the disguise while he hid, was actually fairly clever, and one of the few good things to come out of "Titans Hunt."

Leonid was not exposed to a meteorite. He was exposed to an alien "escape craft" that had jettisoned from the alien space craft that crashed in Tunguska, Siberia, Russia near the Yenisei River, in 1908. Apparently in the DCU, or at least Earth-One, the Tunguska Event was caused by an alien. It may have been retconned to being "just" a meteor later on, I don't know. But in Starfire's first two appearances, it was an alien craft.
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Oh, and Robin's assertion that Leonid never used his powers is wrong. He was using his speed and strength throughout the issue. The problem was noone's super powers were displayed that well. I'm not sure if it's the writing, or Bill Draut's art made all five once-and-future Titans come across like they were PL 4.

Other fun bits: Teen Titans 18 (vol 1) was written by Marv Wolfman and Len Wein. Leonid's next appearance, the one where he has to stop his fiancee, was in New Teen Titans 18 (vol 1) written by Marv Wolfman and edited by Len Wein.

The fire/blaster powers weren't around at the beginning. In TT 18, NTT 18, and the Crisis, he was better, stronger, faster, but he lacked the energy powers.

I preferred the green-on-green uniform. The red and yellow one just never did it for me. Plus, in the Who's Who pic
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I seriously cannot figure what angle his right leg is suppossed to be at.
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Ken
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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Flash! Arsenal! Kole! Raven! Danny Chase!)

Post by Ken »

And I've never figure out if there was a connection between Andre le Blanc, French jewel thief, and Andre Blanc-Dumont, French Blackhawk.

And just for fun, a George Perez drawing of Raven. No, not the one in Titans Tower.
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Jabroniville
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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Flash! Arsenal! Kole! Raven! Danny Chase!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Goldar wrote: Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:32 am I am enjoying all of your Titan builds.

I laughed so hard on the Danny Chase build notes! You summed him up perfectly and exactly how I felt about him. Fans did hate him. Didn't he eventually die, or is he still in hiding from those atrocious days?!? :lol:
haha, yup- he's so dead that DC Editorial REFUSED TO BRING HIM BACK. When was the last time somebody died in comics and STAYED DEAD?!? He died in the early '90s! JASON TODD was dead for longer than Danny Chase has been now!
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Flash! Arsenal! Kole! Raven! Danny Chase!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Ken wrote: Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:18 am I didn't hate Danny straight out of the gate. Then again, I didn't hate cousin Oliver at first either. But, in time... In all fairness, I thought Danny's "Phantasm" bit, sometimes being inside the cloak and mask, other times telekinetically controlling the disguise while he hid, was actually fairly clever, and one of the few good things to come out of "Titans Hunt."
I think Phantasm was an attempt at making Danny a bit "cooler". The name and the ghostly concept is VERY "Early 1990s Iron Age Comics". I think even the Danny detractors didn't mind him.
Leonid was not exposed to a meteorite. He was exposed to an alien "escape craft" that had jettisoned from the alien space craft that crashed in Tunguska, Siberia, Russia near the Yenisei River, in 1908. Apparently in the DCU, or at least Earth-One, the Tunguska Event was caused by an alien. It may have been retconned to being "just" a meteor later on, I don't know. But in Starfire's first two appearances, it was an alien craft.
My bad. Not sure when I wrote that bio- that part is possibly ten years old, lol.
Other fun bits: Teen Titans 18 (vol 1) was written by Marv Wolfman and Len Wein. Leonid's next appearance, the one where he has to stop his fiancee, was in New Teen Titans 18 (vol 1) written by Marv Wolfman and edited by Len Wein.
Yeah, I noticed who created him, and went "in 1968? No freakin' way" and re-checked, and sure enough... dude was only twenty-two years old back then. The "LenMarv" team was active even in the '60s! Jim Shooter asserts that "LenMarv" was their nickname, as they were inseparable even at Marvel in the '70s, and were constantly writing & editing each other's books, allowing all of their ideas to come through unfiltered- Shooter HATED IT.

So it was funny to me that Marv kept bringing him back. ALMOST a "Precious Pet" moment, but not really, as Leonid was only in the occasional story. And then all of a sudden he's on the Iron Age Titans with all those terrible characters. A real "WTF?" moment. Just having read the "Hammer & Sickle" issue thanks to a back-issue-bin... it's not a BAD comic, just a mediocre one.
I seriously cannot figure what angle his right leg is suppossed to be at.
DRAWING LEGS IS HARD, OKAY!!?!?
Jabroniville
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Pantha

Post by Jabroniville »

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Seriously, imagine being a part of the Wolfman/Perez Titans fanbase, dipping out for a couple years, and coming across THIS?

PANTHA (Subject X-24)
Created By:
Marv Wolfman & Tom Grummett
First Appearance: The New Titans #73 (Feb. 1991)
Role: Bitchy Ugly Chick, Animalistic Fighter, Scrapper
Group Affiliations: The Titans
PL 9 (110)
STRENGTH
6 STAMINA 6 AGILITY 6
FIGHTING 10 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE -1

Skills:
Acrobatics 6 (+12)
Athletics 4 (+10)
Deception 4 (+3)
Expertise (Survival) 6 (+6)
Insight 2 (+2)
Intimidation 8 (+7)
Perception 6 (+6)
Stealth 2 (+8)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Great Endurance, Fearless, Improved Critical (Claws), Improved Grab, Move-By Action, Precise Attack (Close/Concealment), Seize Initiative, Startle, Second Chance (Falling)

Powers:
"Cat-like Abilities"
Speed 3 (16 mph) [3]
Senses 5 (Extended Sight, Hearing & Scent, Acute Scent, Low-Light Vision) [5]
Leaping 2 (30 feet) [2]
"Claws" Strength-Damage +1 (Feats: Split) [2]
"Tail" Extra Limb 1 [1]

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Claws +10 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Initiative +6

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +11 (DC 21), Toughness +6, Fortitude +7, Will +4

Complications:
Relationship (Family Unit- Red Star & Baby Wildebeest)
Prejudice (Freak)- Pantha looks like a humanoid cat, and not the hot, Anime kind.
Secret (Origins)- Pantha never discovered the truth about her origins (she's a Wolverine rip-off with a mysterious past, having been experimented upon by The Wildebeest Society).

Total: Abilities: 58 / Skills: 38--19 / Advantages: 10 / Powers: 13 / Defenses: 10 (110)

-Pantha is another example of Marv Wolfman kinda losing it as the '90s moved on. His idea of creating a successful new Titan... was a hideous cat-girl (which right there is a bad idea- what's the point of cat-girls in comics if you're going to make them UGLY? Who's THAT supposed to appeal to? Cuz WOMEN aren't going to like that kind of character either), who caustically insulted the entire team in a mean-spirited fashion (sorta like Danny Chase, and we KNOW how that one turned out), flipped out and attacked everybody, and adopted a baby Wildebeest-human. How this character failed to succeed, I have NO idea, but there she was, shunted in Comics Limbo (even Titans books later on only paid them minor lip service), only coming out to fight in mass Titans battles. The last one of which resulted in Superboy-Prime knocking her freaking head off with a casual backhand. This was HILARIOUS, and basically Geoff Johns dumping an unpopular character with an almost gleeful "ha-ha- she sucked!", much like how Wolfman & Perez dusted off the Bug-Eyed Bandit in Crisis on Infinite Earths- comics fans basically cracked jokes about it, as Pantha was nearly universally considered one of the worst Titans ever.

-Much like Monstress or the She-Thing, it just doesn't pay to be an ugly woman in the comic book industry. ESPECIALLY if your ugliness is the "Freaky Creature" kind. Amanda Waller could pull it off (until they Hottified her in the Nu52), but for various reasons, people nearly always reject truly-ugly beast-women in comics & other media. To put it somewhat broadly: men like to look at attractive women, and women want to IDENTIFY with attractive women. The whole "ugly on the outside" thing thus tends to turn off both audiences. The men don't lust for her, and the women don't want to hang out with or envy her. There's a reason why fiction targetted towards women usually hires a beautiful actress to play the "plain" one. And as I've noted with my build on Marrow, a woman can't get away with both being ugly AND unpleasant.

-Meh, Pantha hits PL 9 because she was actually pretty dangerous in combat, though someone like Catwoman (who was there for JLA/Titans despite being on neither team and never actually doing anything to alter the storyline- Jiminez apparently wanted to prove himself a workhorse by adding yet ANOTHER character to a Crossover that featured literally sixty-plus heroes) still referred to her as just a "wannabe" and she got her head knocked off super-easily. She's sort of a PL 8.5 Scrapper archetype with the usual 'animal-person' stuff tacked on.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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HalloweenJack
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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Flash! Arsenal! Kole! Raven! Danny Chase!)

Post by HalloweenJack »

X-24?


Well there's some interesting canon for a online campaign
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KorokoMystia
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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Flash! Arsenal! Kole! Raven! Danny Chase!)

Post by KorokoMystia »

HalloweenJack wrote: Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:01 pm X-24?


Well there's some interesting canon for a online campaign
Huh...She could work as a Weapon-X subject pretty easily, especially given that she's already a Wolverine-like scrapper.

Also, just compare Pantha to Tigra and see the difference.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Flash! Arsenal! Kole! Raven! Danny Chase!)

Post by Ares »

Ironically, the Teen Titans cartoon would turn Pantha into exactly Jab's kind of woman: a tall, busty amazon who'd routinely put men into headlocks.

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KorokoMystia
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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Flash! Arsenal! Kole! Raven! Danny Chase!)

Post by KorokoMystia »

..Huh, making her into a animal-masked wrestler is actually really clever, though it does me of Tekken's King, as well as Pokemon's Incineroar.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Flash! Arsenal! Kole! Raven! Danny Chase!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Where's one of those "I CAME" gifs when you need one?
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Baby Wildebeest

Post by Jabroniville »

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BABY WILDEBEEST
Created By:
Marv Wolfman & Tom Grummett
First Appearance: The New Titans #85 (Feb. 1992)
Role: Dumb Powerhouse
Group Affiliations: The Titans
PL 8 (64)
STRENGTH
10 STAMINA 10 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE -3 AWARENESS -2 PRESENCE -2

Skills:
Intimidation 8 (+6)

Advantages:
Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Power Attack, Ranged Attack 2

Powers:
"Physical Abilities"
Impervious Toughness 3 [3]
Leaping 1 (15 feet) [1]

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Claws +10 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +6 (DC 16), Parry +6 (DC 16), Toughness +10, Fortitude +10, Will +3

Complications:
Relationship (Family Unit- Red Star & Pantha)
Prejudice (Freak)- Baby looks like either a fuzzy baby, or a giant fuzzy monster.
Normal Identity (Baby)- Baby Wildebeest's normal form is that of a small, fuzzy infant- his stats are neglible in this form. Even normally he is a simple-minded creature incapable of talking normally.

Total: Abilities: 42 / Skills: 8--4 / Advantages: 5 / Powers: 4 / Defenses: 9 (64)

-God, this was a stupid era for the Titans. For some reason, Marv Wolfman got it in his head that a group of villainous scientists called THE WILDEBEEST SOCIETY was a good idea. Yeah, really- forget "The Illuminati" or "The Freemasons" being behind stuff- these secretive guys named themselves after the animal most people recognize as the victims of Crocodile & Lion attacks on Animal Planet. So they created this baby wildebeest thing that could turn into a much bigger monstrous brawler. The Titans subsequently adopted it, and Pantha & Red Star moved away upon the failing of that Titans lineup, bringing the baby with them. He appeared infrequently with the other two in tow (one of many Powerhouses trying to hold off Superman during "JLA/Titans"), only to get his whole body punched through by Superboy-Prime during Infinite Crisis. Oddly enough, not a SINGLE FAN complained that they'd basically slaughtered an infant in the pages of a story just to get some scary deaths into the series (all on minor stupid characters, no less).

-Baby Wildebeest is another PL 8 Powerhouse character, limited by his Normal Identity and the fact that his mental stats are so ridiculously low as to make him a combination or stupid animal and small child.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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KorokoMystia
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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Flash! Arsenal! Kole! Raven! Danny Chase!)

Post by KorokoMystia »

From what I've read, despite the stupid-sounding name and concept, they did have a kinda neat gimmick: The members of the Wildebeest Society would act as if it were a single villain named "Wildebeest", even though there were actually many of them, and each one wore an exosuit that made them look similar to the Baby and gave them enhanced strength and durability.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Flash! Arsenal! Kole! Raven! Danny Chase!)

Post by greycrusader »

Oddly, the original Titans animated series IMPROVED on a number of minor characters such as Kole, Pantha, and Wildebeast; and arguably did a better treatment of the Deathstroke-Terra arc (sorry if this is too PC for the board, but putting the onus for the Judas Arc on the 16 year old girl and not the 50+ year old lifelong mercenary and assassin doesn't look nearly as good in the rearview mirror).

Benefit of hindsight I guess.

All my best.

PS: I imagine after seeing those new images of Pantha, Jab is now frantically rewriting her entry..."best cat-woman in comics!...Attractive 2...face behind panther mask only adds to exotic beauty...."
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