Palladium/Rifts into M&M

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Jabroniville
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Jabroniville » Tue May 29, 2018 3:31 am

Hm- good answers! Though I'd figure Shifters and Mystics would do it, too.

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Batgirl III
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Batgirl III » Tue May 29, 2018 3:48 am

Jabroniville wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 3:31 am
Hm- good answers! Though I'd figure Shifters and Mystics would do it, too.
They can, but Ley Line Walkers are usually better at it.
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Jabroniville
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Jabroniville » Tue May 29, 2018 5:49 am

Batgirl III wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 3:48 am
Jabroniville wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 3:31 am
Hm- good answers! Though I'd figure Shifters and Mystics would do it, too.
They can, but Ley Line Walkers are usually better at it.
Oh, I meant that I figured since they could also sorta do Ley Line stuff, they might also have the masks. I would think they'd all be trying it. But it seems like it's part of the "Line Walker" costume, specifically.

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Shifter

Post by Jabroniville » Tue May 29, 2018 6:06 am

ImageImage

Oh, hey look- some of them DO wear gas-masks!

SHIFTER O.C.C.
Role:
Summoner
PL 8 (186)
STRENGTH
1 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Athletics 6 (+7)
Deception 2 (+5)
Expertise (Magic) 8 (+11)
Expertise (Demon Lore) 4 (+7)
Insight 3 (+6)
Investigation 3 (+5)
Perception 5 (+8)
Persuasion 3 (+6)
Stealth 2 (+5)

Advantages:
Equipment 6 (Gear), Ranged Attack 3, Ritualist

Powers:
"Familiar Link"
Senses 1 (Mental Link- Familiar) [1]
Mind Control 8 (Flaws: Limited to One Creature Only -2, Side-Effect- Feels Pain of Familiar, Cannot Gain Another For 1 Year If Familiar Dies) [4]

"Link to the Supernatural!"
Senses 1 (Communication Link- Supernatural Being) [1]
Enhanced Stamina 1 [2]
Enhanced Will 2 (Flaws: Limited to vs. Psionics or Supernatural) [1]
(plus 6 additional spells)

"Anti-Magic Cloud" Nullify Magic 6 (Extras: Ranged, Area- 30ft. Cloud +2, Sustained, Broad, Simultaneous) (42) (*) -- [57]
  • AE: "Impervious To Energy" Immunity 20 (Energy Damage) (20) (*)
  • AE: "Fire Ball" Blast 8 (16) (*)
  • AE: "Life Drain" Weaken Toughness 8 (Reach 5) & Affliction 8 (Fort; Impaired/Disabled) (Limited Degree, Reach 5) (22) (*)
  • AE: "Exorcism" Nullify Possession 8 (Reach 2) (10) (*)
  • AE: "Mystic Portal" Movement 1 (Permeate) & Teleport 5 (Easy, Accurate, Portal +2, Extended +2) (42) (*)
  • AE: "Sense Magic" Senses 3 (Magical Awareness- Ranged, Acute) (3)
  • AE: "Turn Dead" Mind Control 8 (Burst, Ranged Only, Limited to Animated Undead) (16)
  • AE: "Concealment" Concealment 2 (Visuals) (Affects Others, Ranged, Objects Only) (10)
  • AE: "Chameleon" Concealment 2 (Visuals) (Affects Others, Blending) (4)
  • AE: "Shadow Meld" Concealment 4 (Vision) (Requires Shadows) (4)
  • AE: "Call Lightning" Damage 8 (Ranged 2, Line) (18)
  • AE: "Time Slip" Speed 4 & Quickness 4 (8)
  • AE: "Constrain Being" Mind Control 8 (Flaws: Ranged, Limited to Simple Commands, Limited to When Not Being Struck) (8)
  • AE: "Trance" Affliction 8 (Will; Entranced/Compelled/Transformed to Mindless Trancelike State) (Reach 2) (10)
  • AE: "Dimensional Rift Home" Movement 1 (Dimensional Travel- Home Dimension) (2)
(*): Indicates Spell Given From Link to the Supernatural

"Summon & Control Canines" Summon 4 (Active, Controlled, Horde, 1-4 Minions- Uncontrolled, Variable 1- Canines) (32) -- [33]
  • AE: "Summon Lesser Being" Summon 8 (Controlled, Heroic, Continuous, Requires Ritual) (32)
Equipment:
"Light Body Armor" Protection 4 (Extras: Impervious 3) (7)
"Energy Rifle" Blast 7 (Multiattack) (21)

Offense:
Unarmed +5 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Gun +7 (+7 Ranged Damage, DC 22)
Call Lightning +8 Area (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Fireball +7 (+8 Ranged Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +6 (DC 16), Parry +5 (DC 15), Toughness +4 (+8 Armor), Fortitude +4, Will +8

Complications:
Enemy (The Coalition)- The CS actively hate Magic, and will kill any sorcerers they can find.
Power Loss (Magic)- Magic requires the internal energies the Sorcerer to work- too many Spells will wear them out.

Total: Abilities: 50 / Skills: 36--18 / Advantages: 10 / Powers: 99 / Defenses: 9 (186)

-A Shifter is a specific kind of Wizard- one gaining a TON of basline powers, and sporting the highest-level ones of the three classes! He actually matches the Line Walker pretty well, though most of his spells are chosen ahead of time, and must be built via learning them, the way Walkers do. Shifters are more focused around opening and travelling through Rifts- they are said to enjoy teleporting through them, because they can always find their way home. This seems COMPLETELY SUICIDAL in a world as dangerous as this one, but the game's already a bit nuts.

-A key ability is their "Link to the Supernatural", in which the manual explicitly lays out how an otherworldly force will connive and fool the Shifter into doing their bidding, before inevitably turning on them or teleporting into the Shifter's world and laying waste to it. So it's either a class for people who wanna see that happen, or for people who think they can one-up the creature, given how the class description even points out that you're supposed to be fooled by them.

Jabroniville
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Jabroniville » Tue May 29, 2018 6:07 am

And ugh- Wizards are no more fun to stat from Rifts than they are from comics. Totally done with that.

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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Jabroniville » Tue May 29, 2018 11:25 am

Palladium-heads, help me out here: I've read that you can have six attacks per melee in Power Armor to start, and I'm trying to figure out how that's possible.

Most Fighting Styles give you 2 Attacks to start. Being in Robot Power Armor (RPA) gives you +2 Attacks (for some reason). The "Boxing" skill inexplicably adds another attack, making it an auto-buy for basically everyone, ever.

That's all I can do to make five attacks for a SAMAS/Glitter Boy-type. Now, Juicers add +2 Attacks as a class feature (as do all but a handful of their variants), and Additional Cybernetic Limbs can add +1 Attack. But how does a regular pilot do it?

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Batgirl III
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Batgirl III » Tue May 29, 2018 11:41 am

In most Rifts books, they repeatedly say that a character has "TWO attacks per melee to start." However, this does not include the two attacks per round any character with hand to hand training (Basic, Expert, Martial Arts, Assassin, etc.) also starts with. Yep, this is a direct result of their confusing layout, inability to organize books, and other assorted things that make you say "Oh, Palladium. Bless you hearts."

Example: A character with Hand to Hand: Basic starts off with four melee attacks, but has a total of 5 at level four, 6 at level nine, and 7 at level 15. If the Boxing skill is also taken, the character would have one more.
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Jabroniville
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Jabroniville » Tue May 29, 2018 11:56 am

That's weird- the Hand-To-Hand tables just say "2 Attacks per melee to start". Everything else has a plus sign in front of it, indicating you don't get one for those.

The Robot Combat section says that "Most first level pilots, with both skills, will have a total of FOUR attacks per melee", so I think you're only supposed to have 2 plus 2 (HTH plus Robot Combat). The example combat also shows the SAMAS running out of attacks at four, while the UAR-1 Enforcer (manned by more than one person) has more.

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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Jabroniville » Tue May 29, 2018 12:06 pm

LOL- apparently this is a sore point with the poor gamers expected to actually USE these rulebooks: http://palladiumbooks.com/forums/viewto ... 7&start=50

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Batgirl III
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Batgirl III » Tue May 29, 2018 12:06 pm

In the case of Robot Combat, the Robot & Power Armor Combat skill replaces your Hand to Hand skill. So you get the base two that everyone gets, plus two from Robot & Power Armor Combat for four.

At least, that is how I understand things to work. There is a long and convoluted answer in a F.A.Q. thread on the official Palladium forum... But, honestly, it just confuses me more.

Oh, Palladium... Bless your heart.
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Jabroniville
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Jabroniville » Tue May 29, 2018 12:14 pm

Apparently the real "Official Answer" is that you were supposed to get 2 from your base, but Kevin later CHANGED HIS MIND, and re-wrote the rules because he watched boxing and figured guys would get more attacks per melee than that.

I mean, my Main Rulebook actually features stat-blocks for standard Grunts, SAMAS & Headhunters, and it indicates only 2 attacks per character (+2 for the SAMAS). But I guess later on he just changed it. The fixed version is probably in another edition, too.
"Characters with any kind of formal hand to hand combat training (HTH Basic, Expert, Assassin, etc. automatically starts with two attacks per melee, in addition to those provided from their actual hand to hand combat skill. That means a first level character typically starts with FOUR attacks per melee round- two to begin and two from a specific Hand to Hand skill. Game Designer Note: This was not originally the case when I first designed the game system. Back then the character only got the number of attacks provided by the Hand to Hand skill (2), plus those gained from experience in that skill and any possible O.C.C. bonus. A lot of people seem to prefer fewer attacks per round tha more. That's okay. If that's what you like, start with only two from Hand to Hand skills and forget about the other two. Role-Playing is flexible, go with what you, as GM, feel most comfortable with. I only increased the starting number (four instead of two) because it seemed more realistic for characters who are trained in combat (including adventurers who need to know how to handle themselves in the wild)."
Because Palladium.

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Batgirl III
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Batgirl III » Tue May 29, 2018 12:31 pm

Meanwhile, every other RPG on the market long ago discovered to concept of “action economy” and “efficient game play” and has been working to reduce the number of attacks per turn a player can take... Compare AD&D 2nd Edition’s convoluted “three attacks over two turns,” to D&D 3.x Edition’s “three attacks at +11/+6/+1 when you use a Full Attack Action” to D&D 5e’s “you can Attack twice, instead on once, when...” M&M, of course, only gives you one. Ever.

Then remind yourself that every single one of those games — yes, even AD&D2e! — is a newer system than Palladium’s.

Palladium is the coelacanth of game design: a living fossil that should be extinct, but lives on nevertheless.
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Jabroniville
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Jabroniville » Tue May 29, 2018 12:44 pm

I still can't figure out why BOXING lets you shoot faster, and why you get extra attacks from wearing armor. Shouldn't that almost be the opposite? Why can you suddenly shoot your gun more times because you're in a big, clunky suit? I could see it if you were supposed to use those attacks to fire those OTHER weapons, but there's almost no benefit in the game to NOT just use your best attack over and over again till you run out of ammo.

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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Batgirl III » Tue May 29, 2018 12:53 pm

Because the entire Palladium “System” was a set of house rules for BECMI Edition Dungeons & Dragons, that somehow, got turned into twenty-five different gamelines all with ever so slightly differences in verbiage to make them ever so slightly incompatible with each other, based on guys swinging swords or exchanging punches, that now much account for firearms, laser blasters, giant mecha throwing missile salvoes, starfighters, and spaceships... and rather than ever release a definitive second edition of the rules, they just print another set of books with slightly more distinct verbiage. But those same books have notes from the author saying you should feel free to ignore the change.

TL;DR: Because Palladium.
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MacynSnow
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by MacynSnow » Tue May 29, 2018 2:32 pm

The only reason i can figure for Boxing giving you more A.P.M.(Attacks Per Melee) is due to constant training and muscle memory,at least in a narrative sense.
As for Power Armor,from a narrative sense it could be explained that all current model's have a "Combat Computer" installed that let's the pilot strike at their opponent(s) multiple times in a round....

As an aside jab;you asked me earlier how many attacks Eduardo got a 12: the total number i recall was 11-12 if i got a suprise hit(i took the Crav Magav style from Ninjas & Superspies,which gives you a free +1 extra attack for that round if you can catch your opponent unaware).... 8-)

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