Palladium/Rifts into M&M

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Batgirl III
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Batgirl III »

Depends on which book, really, as in the Ultimate Edition, the Headhunter is explicitly stated to be a partial conversion ‘borg; in the Original Edition, he’s mostly just a Badass Normal.
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by MacynSnow »

Batgirl III wrote: Mon May 21, 2018 5:40 pm Depends on which book, really, as in the Ultimate Edition, the Headhunter is explicitly stated to be a partial conversion ‘borg; in the Original Edition, he’s mostly just a Badass Normal.
....With 1d4 bionic implants.And i own copies of Heroes Unlimited and Ninjas&Superspies.... :D
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Jabroniville »

Chris Brady wrote: Mon May 21, 2018 4:32 pm Headhunters are actually one step below the Combat 'Borg, and definitely not the baseline soldier/adventurer type. The Headhunter wants cybernetics, to give them they edge in a combat. It's a common misconception from the core book.
Who's the baseline guy, then? The Main Rulebook tends towards specific concepts & classes (Scholar, Scientist, Wizard, Fixer, Doctor, Juice-Monkey, Punk Kid, Dragon). The Coalition Classes are kind of "NPC-ish". The Headhunter came off as more of a basic dude.
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by MacynSnow »

Jabroniville wrote: Mon May 21, 2018 8:47 pm
Chris Brady wrote: Mon May 21, 2018 4:32 pm Headhunters are actually one step below the Combat 'Borg, and definitely not the baseline soldier/adventurer type. The Headhunter wants cybernetics, to give them they edge in a combat. It's a common misconception from the core book.
Who's the baseline guy, then? The Main Rulebook tends towards specific concepts & classes (Scholar, Scientist, Wizard, Fixer, Doctor, Juice-Monkey, Punk Kid, Dragon). The Coalition Classes are kind of "NPC-ish". The Headhunter came off as more of a basic dude.
My vote goes to the Vagabond,as that's what 90% of the NPC's in the world are.
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Jabroniville »

MacynSnow wrote: Mon May 21, 2018 8:53 pm
Jabroniville wrote: Mon May 21, 2018 8:47 pm
Chris Brady wrote: Mon May 21, 2018 4:32 pm Headhunters are actually one step below the Combat 'Borg, and definitely not the baseline soldier/adventurer type. The Headhunter wants cybernetics, to give them they edge in a combat. It's a common misconception from the core book.
Who's the baseline guy, then? The Main Rulebook tends towards specific concepts & classes (Scholar, Scientist, Wizard, Fixer, Doctor, Juice-Monkey, Punk Kid, Dragon). The Coalition Classes are kind of "NPC-ish". The Headhunter came off as more of a basic dude.
My vote goes to the Vagabond,as that's what 90% of the NPC's in the world are.
I mean a baseline ADVENTURER (ie the Man Of Arms I mentioned before), not some common nobody :).
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Batgirl III »

Probably the Rogue Scientist, Rogue Scholar, or Robot Pilot (if you opt to make him a Power Armor specialist).
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by catsi563 »

Or the City rat
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Jabroniville »

Batgirl III wrote: Mon May 21, 2018 9:00 pm Probably the Rogue Scientist, Rogue Scholar, or Robot Pilot (if you opt to make him a Power Armor specialist).
I figured the first two for non-combat Skillmonkeys with lower expectations of gear. I assumed people would take my comments to mean "average", not "bottom tier".
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Jabroniville »

Haha, oh geez. Turns out I got the Federation of Magic book for cheap years ago, and the damn thing doubles the number of spells. Not doing all that work again. At best, I'm gonna put down all the crunchy spells and that's it.
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Batgirl III »

RIFTS doesn’t have a “baseline” class, in the sense that something like D&D 3.x and 5e’s Fighter serves as the starting point for the other classes. The game just isn’t that mechanically sound or balanced. The O.C.C. that has the least amount of “built in” assumptions of how you are going to play it and what gear your going to use is the Headhunter or one of the two Rogue Academics.

The Savage Worlds iteration of the game actually does have a better sense of balance, guys like the Glitter Boy and Juicer are classes on their own. But all the various flavors of Mercenary, Adventurers, Rogues, and Scholars are lumped together in one class, given the nicely retro acronym: M.A.R.S. If you opt to play as a M.A.R.S. class, you first pick a sub-class like Scientist, City Rat, Head Hunter, or Robot Pilot, and you get some
Specific skills, feats, and gear for that subclass. But M.A.R.S. also start with 15 XP, which gets you three “advancements” compared to the other classs that start at 0 XP.

In D&D terms, this would be like having the Fighter and Wizard PCs be 1st Level, but the Scholar and Noble PCs starting out at 3rd Level.
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by MacynSnow »

Batgirl III wrote: Tue May 22, 2018 3:45 am RIFTS doesn’t have a “baseline” class, in the sense that something like D&D 3.x and 5e’s Fighter serves as the starting point for the other classes. The game just isn’t that mechanically sound or balanced. The O.C.C. that has the least amount of “built in” assumptions of how you are going to play it and what gear your going to use is the Headhunter or one of the two Rogue Academics.

The Savage Worlds iteration of the game actually does have a better sense of balance, guys like the Glitter Boy and Juicer are classes on their own. But all the various flavors of Mercenary, Adventurers, Rogues, and Scholars are lumped together in one class, given the nicely retro acronym: M.A.R.S. If you opt to play as a M.A.R.S. class, you first pick a sub-class like Scientist, City Rat, Head Hunter, or Robot Pilot, and you get some
Specific skills, feats, and gear for that subclass. But M.A.R.S. also start with 15 XP, which gets you three “advancements” compared to the other classs that start at 0 XP.

In D&D terms, this would be like having the Fighter and Wizard PCs be 1st Level, but the Scholar and Noble PCs starting out at 3rd Level.
You have to realize something though,both the Scholar and Noble PCs barely get anything after 3rd except HP and skill points(i'm going to assume 3.0-3.5 here),while our good friends the Fighter and Wizrd become more powerful as they level up.

So what's the counter-balance for the M.A.R.S., what do they get to even out with the GB&Juicer?
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by catsi563 »

Jabroniville wrote: Tue May 22, 2018 3:06 am Haha, oh geez. Turns out I got the Federation of Magic book for cheap years ago, and the damn thing doubles the number of spells. Not doing all that work again. At best, I'm gonna put down all the crunchy spells and that's it.
theres an Entire Magic Hand book which covers EVERY single bit of Magic in Rifts world to a certain point makes the fed of magic book look like a readers digest version
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Batgirl III »

MacynSnow wrote: Tue May 22, 2018 5:30 am You have to realize something though,both the Scholar and Noble PCs barely get anything after 3rd except HP and skill points(i'm going to assume 3.0-3.5 here),while our good friends the Fighter and Wizrd become more powerful as they level up.

So what's the counter-balance for the M.A.R.S., what do they get to even out with the GB&Juicer?
I'm really stretching the analogy here, since the advancement scheme in Savage Worlds is pretty much completely open-ended and the advancement scheme in D&D is class-based.
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Re: Palladium/Rifts into M&M

Post by Jabroniville »

Batgirl III wrote: Tue May 22, 2018 3:45 am RIFTS doesn’t have a “baseline” class, in the sense that something like D&D 3.x and 5e’s Fighter serves as the starting point for the other classes. The game just isn’t that mechanically sound or balanced. The O.C.C. that has the least amount of “built in” assumptions of how you are going to play it and what gear your going to use is the Headhunter or one of the two Rogue Academics.
I was trying to find a good word for it, but I figured "Generic" or "Standard" would fit in my description- my reasoning is that the Headhunter is probably the least "Special" and most "Regular" guy in the book. Everything else is either Unskilled "Roleplayer" characters (Vagabond, City Rat), Skilmonkeys (the two Rogue classes), Magic, Psionic, a Dragon, or possesses some very distinctive accouterments (a steroid harness; a glittery robot suit; a cyborg body; a bunch of pop cans stuck to his head).

By contrast, the Headhunter is just "Guy with gun, maybe some psionics, usually some cybernetics, and some good armor".
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Rogue Scholar

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

The art for this O.C.C. always made me laugh- just some guy READING while looking over his shoulder and holding a gun. I mean... a big part of the setting IS that illiteracy and other things are the norm, and that the Coalition States strives towards an under-educated, ignorant populace, but... it just looks so FUNNY. Like "I'm rebellious because I'm READING!!!"

ROGUE SCHOLAR O.C.C.
Role:
Rebellious Reader
PL 6 (92)
STRENGTH
1 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 3
INTELLIGENCE 5 AWARENESS 4 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Athletics 6 (+7)
Deception 6 (+9)
Expertise (Art) 2 (+7)
Expertise (Literature) 5 (+10)
Expertise (Geography) 7 (+12)
Expertise (History) 5 (+10)
Insight 2 (+6)
Investigation 5 (+9)
Perception 3 (+7)
Persuasion 1 (+4)
Technology 5 (+10)
Vehicles 3 (+6)

Advantages:
Beginner's Luck, Equipment 6 (Gear), Jack Of All Trades, Ranged Attack 2

Equipment:
"Plastic Man Armor" Protection 5 (5)
"Assorted Gear" (10)
"Wilk's Laser Pistol" Blast 7 (14)

Offense:
Unarmed +5 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Wilk's Laser Pistol +5 (+7 Ranged Damage, DC 22)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +5 (DC 15), Parry +5 (DC 15), Toughness +3 (+7 Armor), Fortitude +4, Will +6

Complications:
Motivation (Learning & Teaching)- Rogue Scholars are constantly seeking out new forms of knowledge, and trying to teach it to others. They never wish to leave anything with such value behind.
Prejudice (Learned)- Knowledge is dangerous in the Post-Apocalyptic world. The Coalition States punishes anyone caught learning or especially TEACHING severely. The powers that be don't want people asking questions.

Total: Abilities: 50 / Skills: 50--25 / Advantages: 10 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 7 (92)

-I can't remember where I read it, but I've heard that the Rogue Scholar is Kevin Siembieda's own personal Player Character in an ongoing Rifts campaign. It kind of makes sense, given how much stuff he writes for the famous Erin Tarn (THE NPC of all Rifts games, appearing to write essays on just about every subject known to man- her opinion is usually given as if it's the "Correct" one, speaking for the writers), who is herself a 14th Level Rogue Scholar. And like BatgirlIII said, this is a system that presents the wildest stuff known to gaming... and some of the most mundane stuff ever. So "Guy Who Knows Stuff" is a complete Character Class, in spite of its comparative uselessness in battle.

-To be fair, they're good Skillmonkeys, AND this is a class you'd see often in other Post-Apocalyptic settings as useful individuals. It's just that they're in a world of Juicers, Dragons, Psionics & Cyborgs.

-A Rogue Scholar is THE Skillmonkey of Rifts, in fact. Comparing their stats to others in the Main Rulebook, they're way in the lead, being allowed to take 16 "other" Skills (ie. non-mandatory ones), with only the Rogue Scientist coming close (14)- everyone else seems to have 10 at the most, and most "Men At Arms" (Fighting Classes) are below even that. And of course, since Classes don't usually carry inherent stat-bonuses, these guys are very likely to be just as physically capable as anyone else. Their starter gear is even as variable as anyone else's, but is said to lean towards lightweight stuff, "so they can carry more books and artifacts". So yes, you're expected to carry suboptimal gear in the name of proper role-playing. Admirable, and very funny given the reputation Rifts has towards Power Creep.
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