Palladium/Rifts into M&M

[Batgirl III]

I'll admit, when I do my own conversions of them, I tend to beef up their Strength scores, making them at the very least mid-level flying bricks. The superstrength scaling in Rifts is surprisingly low, and the kind of strength displays you see in some of the art is technically impossible under the rules.

Yeah, I kind of assumed Cosmo-Knights would be at least in the 10 Ton lifting range; but Phase World only gives them a Physical Strength of 3d6+32... and near as I can tell, it isn’t considered Augmented, Robotic, or Supernatural*... Just baseline human strength, albeit at a level that’s way above human norms.

* (although I will not be shocked, at all, to learnt that this information is just listed somewhere else in the book or in some other book entirely.)

Edit: Goddammit Palladium! I was just looking over the Cosmo-Knight entry in Phase World, and wouldn’t you know it, in a single line of text on page 102, a looong two pages of dense text away from anything about their Attributes, shoved in between O.C.C. Skills and Experience Level, there appears “Damage: Supernatural P.S. damage.” Which I guess means they might have Supernatural P.S. for lifting purposes too?

Hand to Zod, it’s not the power-creep or thirty-plus year old ruleset that keeps me from playing RIFTS, it’s the godawful physical layout of the books.

[MacynSnow]

Why wouldn’t a “combat adventurer” have military training? Presumably they were part of a militia or paramilitary organization (if not an actual Coalition Grunt) prior to mustering out and seeking fame and fortune in the wilderness...

I stand corrected and am properly chastized now....

[Tattooedman]

And like I mentioned, I did a custom edit of that image to get what I consider in universe the "iconic" Cosmo-Knight look:

I'm gonna "borrow" this picture,Ares.Just thought you should know.

Me too, just need to come up with a good character idea to go with it.....

[Ares]

I'll admit, when I do my own conversions of them, I tend to beef up their Strength scores, making them at the very least mid-level flying bricks. The superstrength scaling in Rifts is surprisingly low, and the kind of strength displays you see in some of the art is technically impossible under the rules.

Yeah, I kind of assumed Cosmo-Knights would be at least in the 10 Ton lifting range; but Phase World only gives them a Physical Strength of 3d6+32... and near as I can tell, it isn’t considered Augmented, Robotic, or Supernatural*... Just baseline human strength, albeit at a level that’s way above human norms.

* (although I will not be shocked, at all, to learnt that this information is just listed somewhere else in the book or in some other book entirely.)

Edit: Goddammit Palladium! I was just looking over the Cosmo-Knight entry in Phase World, and wouldn’t you know it, in a single line of text on page 102, a looong two pages of dense text away from anything about their Attributes, shoved in between O.C.C. Skills and Experience Level, there appears “Damage: Supernatural P.S. damage.” Which I guess means they might have Supernatural P.S. for lifting purposes too?

Hand to Zod, it’s not the power-creep or thirty-plus year old ruleset that keeps me from playing RIFTS, it’s the godawful physical layout of the books.

Yeah, they were always listed as having Supernatural PS, but even with that and a lifting strength of 50, I think that's still only a ton or two. I seem to remember supernatural PS was Strength x 50 in pounds.

[Ares]

And like I mentioned, I did a custom edit of that image to get what I consider in universe the "iconic" Cosmo-Knight look:

I'm gonna "borrow" this picture,Ares.Just thought you should know.

Me too, just need to come up with a good character idea to go with it.....

Both of you feel free. It is pretty epic if I do say so myself.

[Batgirl III]

I’ve always liked the Cosmo-Knights’ concept, as is. It’s an odd fit for the Phase World sub-setting and an even stranger fit for standard RIFTS, but ported over to a four-color comic book ‘verse and it fits right in.

Seriously, picture a team composed of Silver Surfer, Adam Strange, Thor, a Green Lantern, and a Cosmo-Knight. They all mesh together just fine.

[Jabroniville]

Yeah, they're kind of odd out there- like a Cosmic D&D Paladin in a world where you're practically expected to play a mercenary.

It is kind of funny that they take the lion's share of the blame as the "Iconic Power Creep Class" in Rifts- is there other PC stuff that's way stronger? Or are those typically NPC-style monsters?

Made a checklist of the books I actually own, which limits the stuff I can build here:
* Main Rulebook
* New West (some great art with their "scratchy armor" guy)
* Rifts Japan (I think every geek was honor-bound to buy Rifts Japan. NINJA JUICERS!! NINJA CRAZIES!! NINJA CYBORG!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!)
* The Federation of Magic ("Oh, you think Mages are underpowered compared to the combat classes? Here ya go!")
* Rifts South America (just some assorted stuff)
* Juicer Uprising (an entire book based off of ONE class! With absolute scads of Power Creep goodness)
* Rifts Atlantis (MOAR POWER CREEP!!)
* Rifts Africa (I forget. It was a friend's book)
* Rifts Mercenaries (a book entirely about Headhunters and their ilk)
* Free Quebec (the "Glitter Boy Book")
* Coalition War Campaign (Power Creep in bad guy form, though with a lot of "Sketchpad Character" suboptimal armor). I find it curious they "replaced" the iconic Coalition uniform only six years into the run of the game. They've been faceless hordes for three times as long as they were ever skull-faced!)
* Rifts Underseas (... I didn't buy it just to laugh at the Dolphin Power Armor. I swear)
* CS/War on Tolkeen: Free Quebec, Siege on Tolkeen, Final Siege (a handful of books featuring their "middle years" of the war with the Federation of Magic. I've got three of them)
* Triax 2 (a sequel to the first Triax & the NGR book, featuring new Armor Porn, properly Power Creeped up to modern sensibilities)
* Rifts Lemuria (some crazy Walton art for monsters)
* Northern Gun Book 1 (more Walton art, but in the Techno-Porn style)

[Batgirl III]

Godlings, Demi-Gods, Temporal Wizards, Blhaze, Cosmo-Knights, Psislayers, Prometheans, Apok, Holy-Terrors, and Robotech Pilots make up my personal list of most powerful stuff in RIFTS... and maybe it’s just my years of superhero gaming, but none seem especially gross on the surface.

Obviously, this is mitigated by a GM who knows how to say “No.” and doesn’t let you play a Holy Terror in his campaign focused on City Rats and Rogue Scholars smuggling black market books out of Chi-Town...

It’s only really really bad when you start mixing things — the Demi-God R.C.C. can pick any O.C.C., the Cosmo-Knight O.C.C. can be from any R.C.C., and the Demi-God has an choose-one-option list of racial abilities, one of which is “know an entire school of magic,” and Temporal Wizardy is a valid option... So, yikes.

[Jabroniville]

Never mind the fact that an unwise GM can accidentally lead the players towards any manner of horrifying stuff- like I mentioned with my "Headhunter" build, the biggest Munchkin/Powergamer I've personally heard of played the more mid-tier Headhunter class. On the surface it's not superior to the Borg, Juicer or Power Armor guys... but this guy had somehow finagled his way into supreme power via technological modification of his body, to the point where OTHER RIFTS PLAYERS thought he was over the top in might.

I've heard horror stories of guys jury-rigging Boom Guns and assorted other things together following successful assaults. Any enemies with great gear can have their gear captured.

[MacynSnow]

Never mind the fact that an unwise GM can accidentally lead the players towards any manner of horrifying stuff- like I mentioned with my "Headhunter" build, the biggest Munchkin/Powergamer I've personally heard of played the more mid-tier Headhunter class. On the surface it's not superior to the Borg, Juicer or Power Armor guys... but this guy had somehow finagled his way into supreme power via technological modification of his body, to the point where OTHER RIFTS PLAYERS thought he was over the top in might.

I've heard horror stories of guys jury-rigging Boom Guns and assorted other things together following successful assaults. Any enemies with great gear can have their gear captured.

Whenever you want to share stories about Munchkin/Powergamers, come talk to me.My entire first group of tabletop players were NOTHING but Munchkin/Powergamers that only played Advanced D&D,Shadowrun and RIFTS....*shudders at repressed memory*

[Chris Brady]

Why wouldn’t a “combat adventurer” have military training? Presumably they were part of a militia or paramilitary organization (if not an actual Coalition Grunt) prior to mustering out and seeking fame and fortune in the wilderness...

Exactly

Most would towns, like Ishpeming (Northern Gun), Lazlo and all them would have a professional soldier as part of their militia/military. The Coalition Grunt is the closest people can choose to simulate that type of warrior. Otherwise, it may as well be the 'Bounty Hunter' from the Mercenaries book.

[Batgirl III]

There’s some fun variations on the theme in other books, like the Gunslinger and Gunfighter from New West, the Scouts and Hunters from Dinosaur Swamp, and (as mentioned) nearly everyone in Mercenaries. But, basically, if you want a generic adventurer in RIFTS, you’re probably best off with the Coalition Grunt or Headhunter from the core rulebook, then asking your GM if you can change the background to suit.

[Jabroniville]

OTHER SAMAS UNITS:
* Coalition War Campaign introduced three additional SAMAS suits, two of which are largely similar to the Main Rulebook's, and one with significant "Power Creep". These builds assume the same stats for the pilot, but they could likely be far superior.



COALITION ELITE ROBOT POWER ARMOR O.C.C. (SAMAS Pilot)
Role: Elite Soldiers
PL 10 (173)
STRENGTH 2/7 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Athletics 3 (+5)
Expertise (Soldier) 6 (+7)
Intimidation 3 (+4)
Perception 4 (+5)
Technology 6 (+7)
Treatment 2 (+3)
Vehicles 6 (+10)

Advantages:
Benefit 2 (Rank- CS Soldier), Equipment 2 (CS Gear), Ranged Attack 3

Powers:
"Smiling Jack Light Assault SAMAS Power Armor" (Flaws: Removable) [79]
Enhanced Strength 5 (10)
Protection 9 (Extras: Impervious 11) (20)
Immunity 7 (Hot, Cold, Radiation, Pressure, Vacuum, Suffocation 2) (7)
Senses 9 (Infravision, UV Vision, Low-Light Vision, Extended Vision 2, Extended Hearing, "Radar"- Ranged Radius Radio Sense) (9)
Leaping 1 (15 feet) (1)
Flight 7 (250 mph) (14) -- (15)

• AE: Speed 5 (60 mph) (5)

"Rocket Launcher" Blast 10 (Feats: Ranged 3) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (33)
Immunity 4 (Visual & Audio Dazzles) (4)
Stealth -2 (-1)
-- (98 points)

"Military Hardware" (Flaws: Easily Removable) [23]
"Rail Gun" Blast 13 (Feats: Ranged 3) (Extras: Penetrating 8) (37 points)

Equipment:
"CS Gear"
Mini-Computer (2)
Tinted Visor, Loudspeaker, etc. (3)
"Assorted Gear" Gas Masks, Radios, etc. (4)

Offense:
Unarmed +5 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
SAMAS Punch +5 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Rail Gun +7 (+13 Ranged Damage, DC 28)
Rocket Launcher +10 Area (+10 Ranged Damage, DC 25)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +9 (DC 19), Parry +6 (DC 16), Toughness +2 (+11 SAMAS Armor), Fortitude +4, Will +4

Complications:
Responsibility (The Coalition States)- All Coalition military personell are expected to uphold the virtues of the CS, and are subject to "reorientation", or worse, if they stray.
Enemy (Tolkeen)- The Magic-heavy state is anathema to the Coalition States.
Hatred (D-Bees, Psychics, Magic)

Total: Abilities: 36 / Skills: 30--15 / Advantages: 7 / Powers: 102 / Defenses: 13 (173)

-The "Smiling Jack" is a Light Assault unit designed more like the newer (ie. 6 years after the game came out) CS troop armor, but sports the same durability as a regular SAMAS. It's a bit more manueverable than a regular suit at higher altitudes.



COALITION ELITE ROBOT POWER ARMOR O.C.C. (SAMAS Pilot)
Role: Elite Soldiers
PL 11 (198)
STRENGTH 2/7 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Athletics 3 (+5)
Expertise (Soldier) 6 (+7)
Intimidation 3 (+4)
Perception 4 (+5)
Technology 6 (+7)
Treatment 2 (+3)
Vehicles 6 (+10)

Advantages:
Benefit 2 (Rank- CS Soldier), Equipment 2 (CS Gear), Ranged Attack 3

Powers:
"Super SAMAS Power Armor" (Flaws: Removable) [104]
Enhanced Strength 6 (12)
Protection 11 (Extras: Impervious 13) (24)
Immunity 7 (Hot, Cold, Radiation, Pressure, Vacuum, Suffocation 2) (7)
Senses 9 (Infravision, UV Vision, Low-Light Vision, Extended Vision 2, Extended Hearing, "Radar"- Ranged Radius Radio Sense) (9)
Leaping 1 (15 feet) (1)
Flight 8 (500 mph) (16) -- (17)

• AE: Speed 5 (60 mph) (5)

Immunity 4 (Visual & Audio Dazzles) (4)
Features 3: Increased Mass 3 (3)
Stealth -4 (-2)

"Dual Plasma & Laser Weapon System" Blast 14 (Feats: Ranged 3) (Extras: Penetrating 8, Multiattack) (53) -- (55)

• AE: "Forearm Grenade Launchers" Blast 11 (Feats: Reach 3) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (36)
• AE: "Forearm Vibro-Blades" Strength-Damage +4 (Feats: Improved Critical) (Extras: Penetrating 8) (13)

-- (130 points)

"Military Hardware" (Flaws: Easily Removable) [23]
"Rail Gun" Blast 13 (Feats: Ranged 3) (Extras: Penetrating 8) (37 points)

Equipment:
"CS Gear"
Mini-Computer (2)
Tinted Visor, Loudspeaker, etc. (3)
"Assorted Gear" Gas Masks, Radios, etc. (4)

Offense:
Unarmed +5 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
SAMAS Punch +5 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Vibro-Blaes +5 (+11 Damage, DC 26)
Laser Weapons +7 (+14 Ranged Damage, DC 29)
Grenades +10 Area (+10 Ranged Damage, DC 25)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +9 (DC 19), Parry +6 (DC 16), Toughness +2 (+13 SAMAS Armor), Fortitude +4, Will +4

Complications:
Responsibility (The Coalition States)- All Coalition military personell are expected to uphold the virtues of the CS, and are subject to "reorientation", or worse, if they stray.
Enemy (Tolkeen)- The Magic-heavy state is anathema to the Coalition States.
Hatred (D-Bees, Psychics, Magic)
Power Loss (Flight- High Altitudes)- The SAMAS flies with less skill and capability at above 1000m.

Total: Abilities: 36 / Skills: 30--15 / Advantages: 7 / Powers: 127 / Defenses: 13 (198)

-The ultimate "Power Creep" example for these troops, the Super SAMAS is basically "SAMAS, But Better", making it a true elite, meant to take on Dragons, Glitter Boys and Aircraft, usually beside other SAMAS units. It's only real flaw is that it lacks long-range fighting capabilities.



COALITION ELITE ROBOT POWER ARMOR O.C.C. (SAMAS Pilot)
Role: Elite Soldiers
PL 10 (179)
STRENGTH 2/7 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Athletics 3 (+5)
Expertise (Soldier) 6 (+7)
Intimidation 3 (+4)
Perception 4 (+5)
Technology 6 (+7)
Treatment 2 (+3)
Vehicles 6 (+10)

Advantages:
Benefit 2 (Rank- CS Soldier), Equipment 2 (CS Gear), Ranged Attack 3

Powers:
"Special Forces Striker SAMAS Power Armor" (Flaws: Removable) [85]
Enhanced Strength 5 (10)
Protection 10 (Extras: Impervious 11) (21)
Immunity 7 (Hot, Cold, Radiation, Pressure, Vacuum, Suffocation 2) (7)
Senses 9 (Infravision, UV Vision, Low-Light Vision, Extended Vision 2, Extended Hearing, "Radar"- Ranged Radius Radio Sense) (9)
Leaping 1 (15 feet) (1)
Flight 8 (500 mph) (16) -- (17)

• AE: Speed 5 (60 mph) (5)

"Mini-Missile Wing Launchers" Blast 12 (Feats: Ranged 3) (Extras: Multiattack) (39)
Immunity 4 (Visual & Audio Dazzles) (4)
Stealth -4 (-2)
-- (106 points)

"Military Hardware" (Flaws: Easily Removable) [23]
"Rail Gun" Blast 13 (Feats: Ranged 3) (Extras: Penetrating 8) (37 points)

Equipment:
"CS Gear"
Mini-Computer (2)
Tinted Visor, Loudspeaker, etc. (3)
"Assorted Gear" Gas Masks, Radios, etc. (4)

Offense:
Unarmed +5 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
SAMAS Punch +5 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Rail Gun +7 (+13 Ranged Damage, DC 28)
Missile Launchers +7 (+12 Ranged Damage, DC 27)
Rocket Launcher +10 Area (+10 Ranged Damage, DC 25)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +9 (DC 19), Parry +6 (DC 16), Toughness +2 (+12 SAMAS Armor), Fortitude +4, Will +4

Complications:
Responsibility (The Coalition States)- All Coalition military personell are expected to uphold the virtues of the CS, and are subject to "reorientation", or worse, if they stray.
Enemy (Tolkeen)- The Magic-heavy state is anathema to the Coalition States.
Hatred (D-Bees, Psychics, Magic)
Power Loss (Flight- High Altitudes)- The SAMAS flies with less skill and capability at above 1000m.

Total: Abilities: 36 / Skills: 30--15 / Advantages: 7 / Powers: 108 / Defenses: 13 (179)

-The "Striker" SAMAS is the suit for Commandos, and more resembles the old "Death's Head" style (because Wayne Beaux drew it, really). It actually looks pretty solid- the dark armor has a menacing gleam to it. It's basically a step between the SAMAS and the Super SAMAS- one point tougher, and with some built-in Multiattack Mini-Missiles.

[Batgirl III]

Four down, twelve to go...

[Jabroniville]

Jumpin' Jesu-... dammit, I had no idea! I barely remember the Samurai SAMAS (too many ninjas overwhelmed him ), but I don't think I have those other books.