Growth and Shrinking

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kirinke
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Growth and Shrinking

Post by kirinke » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:49 pm

Does anyone have a handy chart on what the size equivalents of the various ranks in Growth and Shrinking are? I'd really appreciate it! :)
Kirinke's Compendium of Wondrous Creatures
Kirinke's Conversions (D&D Items to M&M3E Rules)

Shannon 26
Sektor Init: 1d20+7 26
Sherlock 23
Kar'Anna 22
Amy 15
Lindsey 11
Rand 11 (Arriving round two)
Goon 1 - 4
Goon 2 - 4
Other Goons ?

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Ken
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Re: Growth and Shrinking

Post by Ken » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:34 pm

Technically, the only guideline we're given is in the Size Rank Modifiers table on page 224 in the original Mutants and Mastermind Third Edition book. There is a similar table on page 274 in DCA, but with different numbers. The DCA Errata give the correct numbers which are also the ones in M&M3e p. 224.

There is no particular guide to the intermediate values, as they only cover the ranks that are divisible by 4. Presumably the other values are left to players and GMs to suss out.

However, I worked some out, and can actually be found on this page http://dicetales.net/rcu/dc_h/megaman_dca.htm. There's a table near the bottom of the page, and the first column is Height, the second is ranks of Growth, the third is ranks of Shrinking. Admittedly, it only goes to rank 16 in both directions. However, if you need to know 17, 18, or 19, go to 13, 14, and 15 and multiply the height by 2 (for Growth) or divide the height by 2 (for Shrinking)
What kind of crap glass was used in the windows of Wayne Manor (post-Crisis) that an animal with a mass of less than 27 grams (i.e. weighs less than an ounce) could break through it?

kirinke
Posts: 1105
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:28 pm

Re: Growth and Shrinking

Post by kirinke » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:49 pm

Thanks!
Kirinke's Compendium of Wondrous Creatures
Kirinke's Conversions (D&D Items to M&M3E Rules)

Shannon 26
Sektor Init: 1d20+7 26
Sherlock 23
Kar'Anna 22
Amy 15
Lindsey 11
Rand 11 (Arriving round two)
Goon 1 - 4
Goon 2 - 4
Other Goons ?

RainOnTheSun
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Re: Growth and Shrinking

Post by RainOnTheSun » Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:04 am

It might be worth noting that Growth in M&M 3e doesn't just ignore the square cube law, it actually reverses it. Going from Growth 4 to Growth 8 doubles your height, and presumably multiplies your mass by eight... but it increases your strength by 4, which lets you lift sixteen times as much! When you use a universal table for all measurements, you get a few odd results out of it.
Last edited by RainOnTheSun on Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ken
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Re: Growth and Shrinking

Post by Ken » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:17 am

RainOnTheSun wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:04 am
It might be worth noting that Growth in M&M 3e doesn't just ignore the square cube law, it actually reverses it. Going from Growth 4 to Growth 8 doubles your height, and presumably multiples your mass by eight... but it increases your strength by 4, which lets you lift sixteen times as much! When you use a universal table for all measurements, you get a few odd results out of it.
M&M3E page 110 wrote:Each rank of Growth adds 1 rank to your Strength and Stamina (constructs add 1 rank to Strength and Toughness if they lack Stamina) and adds 1 rank to your mass.
Emphasis mine. Most adult male characters will be mass rank 2, i.e. around 200 lbs. per the Measurements Table. Growth 4 would increase them to mass rank 6 : 3200 lbs. You multiply your mass by 16. Growth 8 would be mass rank 10 : 25 tons. From Growth 4 to Growth 8 your mass becomes 15.625 times what it was.

Honestly, M&M Growth is more punishing than the square cube law. The square cube law says 2x height means 2^3x mass. M&M Growth does 2x height and 2^4x mass. But it does keep your strength proportionate to your mass.
What kind of crap glass was used in the windows of Wayne Manor (post-Crisis) that an animal with a mass of less than 27 grams (i.e. weighs less than an ounce) could break through it?

RainOnTheSun
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Re: Growth and Shrinking

Post by RainOnTheSun » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:48 pm

Huh! Somehow I didn't realize that. Good to know, thanks.

Jabroniville
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Re: Growth and Shrinking

Post by Jabroniville » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:49 am

I made this one years ago, for my own reference. I think it's the DCA version- the other I can find when I get access to my computer again:


Growth 1 (Str & Sta +1, +1 Mass, +0 Intimidation, -0 Dodge/Parry, -1 Stealth) -- (6 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [3]
Growth 2 (Str & Sta +2, +2 Mass, +1 Intimidation, -1 Dodge/Parry, -2 Stealth) -- (8 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [5]
Growth 3 (Str & Sta +3, +3 Mass, +1 Intimidation, -1 Dodge/Parry, -3 Stealth) -- (10 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [7]
Growth 4 (Str & Sta +4, +4 Mass, +2 Intimidation, -2 Dodge/Parry, -4 Stealth) -- (12 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [9]
Growth 5 (Str & Sta +5, +5 Mass, +2 Intimidation, -2 Dodge/Parry, -5 Stealth) -- (15 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [11]
Growth 6 (Str & Sta +6, +6 Mass, +3 Intimidation, -3 Dodge/Parry, -6 Stealth) -- (18 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [13]
Growth 7 (Str & Sta +7, +7 Mass, +3 Intimidation, -3 Dodge/Parry, -7 Stealth) -- (21 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [15]
Growth 8 (Str & Sta +8, +8 Mass, +4 Intimidation, -4 Dodge/Parry, +1 Speed, -8 Stealth) -- (24 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [17]
Growth 9 (Str & Sta +9, +9 Mass, +4 Intimidation, -4 Dodge/Parry, +1 Speed, -9 Stealth) -- (30 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [19]
Growth 10 (Str & Sta +10, +10 Mass, +5 Intimidation, -5 Dodge/Parry, +1 Speed, -10 Stealth) -- (36 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [21]
Growth 11 (Str & Sta +11, +11 Mass, +5 Intimidation, -5 Dodge/Parry, +1 Speed, -11 Stealth) -- (42 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [23]
Growth 12 (Str & Sta +12, +12 Mass, +6 Intimidation, -6 Dodge/Parry, +1 Speed, -12 Stealth) -- (48 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [25]
Growth 13 (Str & Sta +13, +13 Mass, +6 Intimidation, -6 Dodge/Parry, +1 Speed, -13 Stealth) -- (60 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [27]
Growth 14 (Str & Sta +14, +14 Mass, +7 Intimidation, -7 Dodge/Parry, +1 Speed, -14 Stealth) -- (72 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [29]
Growth 15 (Str & Sta +15, +15 Mass, +7 Intimidation, -7 Dodge/Parry, +1 Speed, -15 Stealth) -- (84 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [31]
Growth 16 (Str & Sta +16, +16 Mass, +8 Intimidation, -8 Dodge/Parry, +2 Speed, -16 Stealth) -- (96 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [33]
Growth 17 (Str & Sta +17, +17 Mass, +8 Intimidation, -8 Dodge/Parry, +2 Speed, -17 Stealth) -- (120 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [35]
Growth 18 (Str & Sta +18, +18 Mass, +9 Intimidation, -9 Dodge/Parry, +2 Speed, -18 Stealth) -- (144 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [37]
Growth 19 (Str & Sta +19, +19 Mass, +9 Intimidation, -9 Dodge/Parry, +2 Speed, -19 Stealth) -- (168 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [39]
Growth 20 (Str & Sta +20, +20 Mass, +10 Intimidation, -10 Dodge/Parry, +2 Speed, -20 Stealth) -- (192 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [41]

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Ken
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Re: Growth and Shrinking

Post by Ken » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:01 pm

Yep. That's the DCA pre-errata version.
What kind of crap glass was used in the windows of Wayne Manor (post-Crisis) that an animal with a mass of less than 27 grams (i.e. weighs less than an ounce) could break through it?

Jabroniville
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Re: Growth and Shrinking

Post by Jabroniville » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:11 pm

Yeah, I figured. Now that I have computer access again, here's the "newer" version (though all that's really different is the sizes):

Growth 1 (Str & Sta +1, +1 Mass, +0 Intimidation, -0 Dodge/Parry, -1 Stealth) -- (8 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [3]
Growth 2 (Str & Sta +2, +2 Mass, +1 Intimidation, -1 Dodge/Parry, -2 Stealth) -- (10 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [5]
Growth 3 (Str & Sta +3, +3 Mass, +1 Intimidation, -1 Dodge/Parry, -3 Stealth) -- (12 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [7]
Growth 4 (Str & Sta +4, +4 Mass, +2 Intimidation, -2 Dodge/Parry, -4 Stealth) -- (15 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [9]
Growth 5 (Str & Sta +5, +5 Mass, +2 Intimidation, -2 Dodge/Parry, -5 Stealth) -- (18 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [11]
Growth 6 (Str & Sta +6, +6 Mass, +3 Intimidation, -3 Dodge/Parry, -6 Stealth) -- (21 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [13]
Growth 7 (Str & Sta +7, +7 Mass, +3 Intimidation, -3 Dodge/Parry, -7 Stealth) -- (25 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [15]
Growth 8 (Str & Sta +8, +8 Mass, +4 Intimidation, -4 Dodge/Parry, +1 Speed, -8 Stealth) -- (30 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [17]
Growth 9 (Str & Sta +9, +9 Mass, +4 Intimidation, -4 Dodge/Parry, +1 Speed, -9 Stealth) -- (36 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [19]
Growth 10 (Str & Sta +10, +10 Mass, +5 Intimidation, -5 Dodge/Parry, +1 Speed, -10 Stealth) -- (42 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [21]
Growth 11 (Str & Sta +11, +11 Mass, +5 Intimidation, -5 Dodge/Parry, +1 Speed, -11 Stealth) -- (50 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [23]
Growth 12 (Str & Sta +12, +12 Mass, +6 Intimidation, -6 Dodge/Parry, +1 Speed, -12 Stealth) -- (60 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [25]
Growth 13 (Str & Sta +13, +13 Mass, +6 Intimidation, -6 Dodge/Parry, +1 Speed, -13 Stealth) -- (75 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [27]
Growth 14 (Str & Sta +14, +14 Mass, +7 Intimidation, -7 Dodge/Parry, +1 Speed, -14 Stealth) -- (90 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [29]
Growth 15 (Str & Sta +15, +15 Mass, +7 Intimidation, -7 Dodge/Parry, +1 Speed, -15 Stealth) -- (105 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [31]
Growth 16 (Str & Sta +16, +16 Mass, +8 Intimidation, -8 Dodge/Parry, +2 Speed, -16 Stealth) -- (120 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [33]
Growth 17 (Str & Sta +17, +17 Mass, +8 Intimidation, -8 Dodge/Parry, +2 Speed, -17 Stealth) -- (150 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [35]
Growth 18 (Str & Sta +18, +18 Mass, +9 Intimidation, -9 Dodge/Parry, +2 Speed, -18 Stealth) -- (170 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [37]
Growth 19 (Str & Sta +19, +19 Mass, +9 Intimidation, -9 Dodge/Parry, +2 Speed, -19 Stealth) -- (210 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [39]
Growth 20 (Str & Sta +20, +20 Mass, +10 Intimidation, -10 Dodge/Parry, +2 Speed, -20 Stealth) -- (250 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [41]

"Small Size" Shrinking 4 (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) -- (3 feet) [9]
(-1 Strength, +2 Defenses, +4 Stealth, -2 Intimidation)
"Tiny Size" Shrinking 8 (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) -- (1 foot) [9]
(-2 Strength, +4 Defenses, +8 Stealth, -4 Intimidation, -1 Speed)
"Fun Size" Shrinking 12 (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) -- (6 inches) 9]
(-3 Strength, +6 Defenses, +12 Stealth, -6 Intimidation, -1 Speed)
"Itty-Bitty Size" Shrinking 16 (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) -- (3 inches) [9]
(-4 Strength, +8 Defenses, +16 Stealth, -8 Intimidation, -2 Speed)
"One-Inch Size" Shrinking 20 (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) -- (1 inch) [9]
(-5 Strength, +10 Defenses, +20 Stealth, -10 Intimidation, -2 Speed)

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