Iterations of Champions

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Ken
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Iterations of Champions

Post by Ken »

greycrusader wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:18 am Ken, how badly did HERO system 6th edition deviate from the tried and true of past iterations? I've not heard anything particularly positive about it, though I think the nadir was the Fuzion system that Hero Games once tried to run with.

All my best.
GC, I'm starting a new thread with your question. I want to answer the question, but I don't want to derail or hijack Macyn's debate thread.

First, the rumoured Fuzion system, didn't exist. Just like Batman & Robin and Highlander II.
Batgirl III wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:54 pm (Also, the only continuity where Barbara has any familial relationship to Alfred Pennyworth is in the Batman & Robin film. Which, much like the rumored Highlander II is a movie that I choose to believe doesn’t exist.)
Secondly, they continued an existing trend, and took it to new depths: the 1st edition of Champions was 68 pages (all page counts come from PDFs); 2nd edition was 76 pages; 3rd edition was 146 page (this was the light blue soft cover book); 4th edition could be purchased either as a stand alone softcover book at 228 pages, or as part of the 356 page hardcover book (commonly known as the big blue book); when DOJ Games took over, the revised 5th edition was 592 pages, and was thick enough to stop a bullet (Steve Long, the head of DoJ game, was a lawyer, it showed); sixth edition was 788 pages split across a 466 volume 1 & a 322 page volume 2. It was insane.

More to come.
W: Professor Plum, you were once a professor of psychiatry specializing in helping paranoid and homicidal lunatics suffering from delusions of grandeur.

PP: Yes, but now I work for the United Nations.

W: So your work has not changed.
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Ken
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Re: Iterations of Champions

Post by Ken »

Now, part of the reason that the page count went up on both the 3rd and 4th editions is because art was added, both times. Champions is a super hero game, and super heroes are a very visual genre. Adding art made sense.

When DoJ took over, the amount of art dropped. They were trying hard to push the Hero System as a generic system, and, to my eyes it looked like they were trying to hide the system's super heroic origins.

As I said, Steve Long had been a lawyer. It is evident in his prose style, and length. It also meant that he became, literally, the ultimate Champions Rules Lawyer.

Now, for 5 editions, the Stat block for Champions/Hero hadn't changed. Whatever rules changed between editions, you could still use a 3rd edition character while playing 4th edition. You could still use a 4th edition character while playing 5th. Hell, you could still use a 3rd while using 5th. My player group did, from time to time.

Not so with the 6th edition. Long & Co. decided to change the stat block. They changed what had been the "figured characteristics" (the characteristics whose base values were base on main characteristics) into just characteristics. Ostensibly, it was to "make things fair"; there were some mathematics quirks that made it so, for example, being strong and tough was more cost beneficial than being weak and tough.

They renamed several powers for the sake of renaming them, or, again, to conceal the system's super-heroic origins.

That's all I really know for certain. Honestly, between the lack of backwards compatibility, and making the main rule book two ridiculously sized tomes, that was enough for most of my group. Most of us were unhappy with just how ridiculously rule heavy and "crunchy" Hero had become. We had used Champions for nearly 20 years in spite of the crunchiness of the system, not because of it.

We decided to stick with 5th edition. No, we actually slipped into when we jokingly called "4.8" Mostly using 5th, but in a few cases going back to 4th.
W: Professor Plum, you were once a professor of psychiatry specializing in helping paranoid and homicidal lunatics suffering from delusions of grandeur.

PP: Yes, but now I work for the United Nations.

W: So your work has not changed.
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Davies
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Re: Iterations of Champions

Post by Davies »

I believe the two book set-up for 6th edition took inspiration from the way that GURPS' 4th edition also split its Basic Set into two books, covering Character Creation and Combat & Campaigns. Given how much of an influence the Hero System was on GURPS, that's a somewhat ironic development.
I'm not fourteen hundred years old! I've been sixteen years old fourteen hundred times, but I'm definitely not fourteen hundred years old! If you can't get that through your skull, I'm divorcing you!
Tsukasa Tsukuyomi, in
Fly Me to the Moon, by Kenjiro Hata
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